elitheiceman

Yesterday, during the third flight, my airplane suddenly became uncontrollable. One of our club instructors took the transmitter, but was unable to save the airplane. Fortunately, the damage was just cosmetic. After retrieving the plane, I found that moving the aileron stick caused the elevator as well as the ailerons to move, and moving the elevator stick caused the ailerons to move, and the elevator moved the wrong way. The rudder and throttle worked normally. I removed the Guardian, and the instructor flew the plane with no problem. Back home, when I reconnected the Guardian, the problem persisted. On a hunch, I tried toggling elevon mixing, and everything worked normally. So it looks like the Guardian decided on its own, in the middle of a flight, to change configuration. Anyone else experience anything like this?

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I have a guardian that the elevator trim will change if I increase or decrease the gain.

JohnB96041

Well, gents, these 2 posts have me convinced that taking my Guardian out of my Funtana 125, with DLE 20cc gas engine was a good move. I have flown it about 6 times with success in both the 2d and 3d mode but would rather fly with the Guardian turned off. So, out it came. I think I will leave it out until some of these issues can be worked out with Eagle Tree.

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

Gyros are for helis.

I read & listen to folks who use or want gyros on their plane, and it's obvious they don't understand them fully. They are seen as an 'aid' (as in Band-Aid) to perform something the PILOT should, in most cases, be doing. Said PILOT should be burning fuel or electrons and becoming a better pilot IMO.
They have their place on scale ships with smaller control surfaces, but should be seen as another point of failure and treated as such in all cases.

I've read the jet thread about gyros 'helping' during crosswind landings, and that's just sad. It shows a lack of understanding of the aerodynamics during a crosswind approach and landing, and the 'fix' is seen as another gizmo to buy instead of the PILOT mastering the machine. But then again, I'm just old-school...

I've had my Futaba Tx change some settings on its own, no problem since it was found during pre-flight. The computer radios and ancillary equipment are becoming more complex, so don't be surprised at a few odd events. Eagletree makes quality stuff, but nothing's 100% in this hobby.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

You might want to tell that to the pilot of any late model jet starting with the F-16.They dont fly the airplane,a computer does. They just tell thew computer where to go.
Helicopters have used gyros for years. They are very hard to fly without them.

d_wheel

I just had a similar experience. I have been flying a Stryker clone for a while and really like it. Rudders were added to my latest one in hopes of being able to do knife edge flight. It was found that the airplane goes totaly nuts when rudders are used. No amount of mixing was able to make it controllable in knife edge. I added an Eagle Tree unit hoping that the 3d mode would iron out this wrinkle. The first flight left me smiling from ear to ear. With a small adjustment to the gain knob, the Stryker flew unlimited knife edge! I could make knife edge circuits while rolled to either side requiring only small aileron and elevator inputs. When the battery was used up, I brought it in and flew another airplane whistling and humming to myself with happiness. I then put another battery in the Stryker only to find that the 3D mode no longer worked at all! 2D still works fine, but 3D works like the old original rate mode gyros. A service ticket was opened and Eagle Tree tells me to hook it up to my computer and do a factory reset because "It seems like heading hold has been disabled.". They didn't seem at all concerned that it disabled heading hold on its own with no changes to the unit or transmitter. This is like tech support telling you to reboot your computer when something happens. It may get things going for a while, but it doesn't fix the original problem. I don't have a mini USB cable, so can't do as they suggested, but even if I did I am concerned that it may happen again or worse become uncontrollable like yours. This could cause injury or even death in an extreme case! and I'm just not sure I want to chance it.

Later;

D.W.

JohnB96041

d_wheel: I suggest you get the mini usb cable and hook it to your computer. Download the Data Recorder from their website and do the update to latest firmware, then do a reset. Hope it resolves the issue. Only time will tell. After my last post, I updated the eagle tree guardian this way and reinstalled it in my Funtana 125 and it has not fouled up yet. 6 flights with great success.

d_wheel

Thanks! That is on the top of my list for tomorrow. Looks like that's my only choice for now since Eagle Tree seems so blase on it.

Later;

D.W.

d_wheel

Updating the firmware and doing a reset has me flying again. I can see how it would be possible to start flipping the mode switch several times before the 15 second boot up time and may have done so. Will have to treat it like my helicopters and not touch anything until it has 'booted up'. However, I have found another concern with the unit. The 3D mode does an excellent job of holding attitude, but it has a flaw. If the elevator, aileron, or rudder stick is moved, lock is lost on the other two axises. In other words if the unit was holding an aircraft in a hover and I moved the aileron stick to put it into a pirouette, the elevator and rudder would no longer be holding attitude. The Stryker I am flying will not hover, of course, but the same goes for knife edge. The aircraft goes absolutely berserk when trying to knife edge without the guardian, and it holds the attitude amazingly well until I move either the aileron or elevator. I had to isolate rudder (not run it through the guardian) because when I moved it during the knife edge maneuver, the aileron and elevator would loose lock and the airplane would go nuts. That's OK with this airplane, but I was thinking of getting another guardian for a 3D airplane and definitely will not now! Eagle Tree needs to separate the three controls. That would make it a much better unit, allowing the user to pirouette during hover, or make knife edge loops, etc.

Later;

D.W.

JohnB96041

I have experienced the same thing. The only way I can get around this issue is as follows: If in a hover and the model starts to lean to the right, and left rudder does not automatically take care of it, I bump the rudder to the left and instantly back to neutral. During that bump, the elevator and aileron loose the 3D heading hold. Once the controls are back to center heading hold is again activated as long as the 3 way switch is not moved. Hope this helps.

d_wheel

Deleted

JohnB96041

d-wheel: I contacted Eagle Tree yesterday and they tell me that the aileron and elevator will stay locked in while in 3D even if you are doing corrections with the rudder. If you move the aileron/elevator stick the 3D mode will stop until the stick is centered again. Hope this helps.

d_wheel

It appears that you and I have had just the opposite experience. However, I haven't tried it since updating the firmware. I will try it and see what happens.

Later;

D.W.

arfwrecker

My Feedback: (12)

correct me if ime wrong but I believe their is a advanced setting in 3d mode so that only the rudder corrects and does not interfere with the pitch and roll but would be difficult in mode one where I believe rudder and aileron are right stick .

elitheiceman

In both mode 1 and mode 2, the rudder is on the left stick, the aileron on the right. Mode 1 has the throttle on the right stick, mode 2 has the elevator on the right.

electrev

I have been flying the ETG for about three years...I have one in every aeroplane I fly, swear by them.
But I have a problem, I first found this trying to do knife-edge turns, but now realise it affects landings as well. It goes like this: if you hold a (small) model with the ETG on 3DHH mode, if you rock the wings you will see a HH response, the ailerons will not return to centre until you level the model or "flick a stick", with me so far ? Now try the same thing, but hold just a smidgeon of elevator, you might find your ail response is now AS3X: when you rock the wings the ail respond briefly, but almost immediately return to centre. Simply let go of the el and try again, and you are back to HH.
This means that if you are landing, and pulling back on the stick, the wings will be fine if there's a brief gust of wind, but a long blow will make your model roll.
Anybody got any thoughts on this, anybody encountered it...or got a work-around or setting change?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Hmmm...I've used gyros in planes, are you implying I don't understand them fully?

electrev

Just for the record I fly mode 3.

Montee

The stick mode has absolutely no effect on the gyro, as the gyro gets all its input from the same place on the Rx, irrespective of the stick mode.

I have had a few surprises at the beginning, but since I re-enforced the "Don't touch anything on the TX for 20 seconds on Rx power up", no more problem.

The only issue I have had is the lack of response on the 3 axis when 3D is selected and a fair amount of expo is used.
The surfaces will not move for the first 1/3 of stick travel (on either sides) on each axis.

That was rectified by eliminating the expo only when the 3D mode is selected.

DCGayhart

My Feedback: (22)

I had the same problem, 30th flight. Plane crashed, upon checking control found Guardian was in elevon wing mode, it changed on it's own. What was your resolution?

electrev

All commercial airliners use autopilots. They are especially important in landing, ILS, glide-slope etc.. Maybe those pilots should also get more practise, they are just "cheating".

The ETG 2D/3D is another tool, ignore it at your own risk. I wonder if people who scoff at it do not themselves use expo or dual rates ? These were aliso known as "cheats" when they first came in, now they are common-place ! In fact most 3D pilots will tell you they HAVE to use dual rates to do 3D, the exception to this being the ones that use an ETG 2D/3D.

I have been flyig for 35 years, and was always an average club pilot, now, with the ETG 2D/3D, I am rapidly learning 3D, people on the footpath near our field (!) STOP to watch when I am flying, they don't stop to watch anyone else, and this is all mainly thanks to the ETG 2D/3D. I also fly on any day, no matter how windy it is. I will do a PERFECT 3 point landing, then pick up the model and find I can hardly carry it because the wind is so strong, this is because of theETG 2D/3D.

People who do not accept change should maybe go back to 27 MHz radio-assist (valve of course) with diesel engines (no throttle) and carry on flying in a "purist" way. For me, I will embrace new technology as and when it comes along, and use what I find useful. I do my flying for enjoyment, I do not want to enter competitions, couldn't anyway with an ETG 2D/3D on board. But I go to the field more often, have more success, CRASH LESS, and get more enjoyment out of the hobby with an ETG 2D/3D than I ever did in the "dark ages", so I will carry on using this amazing little piece of technology on every aeroplane I fly.

electrev

And here's MY solution to this, it's so simple you'll kick youself :land in 2D mode !

I now call 2D mode "landing" mode. If you try the above tests in 2D mode you will find that as you pull back on the elevator to flair, the ailerons are still controlled in a HH way. Using this method I now land perfectly EVERY time without exception.

I worked out why they had to do this: in 3D mode, if the elevators make the model go inverted, if the ailerons are in HH mode, they will get "confused" and try to "correct" it and roll back to right-way-up. I am sure it is because of this that in 3D mode if you touch the el or ail axis, all other axes go to AS3X mode, until you let go of all sticks, whence they all immediately return to HH mode.

In 2D mode this is not the case, if you touch the el the ail is still in full HH mode, how is this possible you ask ? 2D mode does not allow/is not designed for inverted flight, so the erroneous correcting problem simply does not occur !

Now on the windiest days I still do perfect 3-point landings. I also use 2D mode to go into a hover: do an approach in 2D mode to keep the wings perfectly level, then as I start to pull the stick back I flick into 3D mode, works a treat !

electrev

But stick mode can have an effect: I fly mode 3, which means my el and ail are on the same stick. It isn't impossible that in the heat of the moment when I pull back on el I might accidentally nudge ail. If the el and ail were on different sticks this would be impossible. That is why I mentioned my stick mode, just to be clear.

As for expo, I do believe that in the instructions ET say you should not use expo with the ETG 2D/3D. Because of that I don't, and have found it unnecessary, the clever little ETG 2D/3D takes care of all that for you anyway.

electrev

How could you POSSIBLY have rudder and aileron on the same stick ? They both go left/right. That is the silliest thing I have ever read !

electrev

What about mode 3 ?