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Sim to real life transitioning

Old 08-27-2016, 03:57 AM
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Johnnysplits
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Default Sim to real life transitioning

Question for the self taught pilots...how was it transitioning from the sim to actual flying? How long were you on the sim before you thought you were ready for the real thing? I just got the Phoenix 5.5 sim. I plan on getting the Eflite apprentice S15. I've flown it in different wind conditions on beginner mode for about 15 minutes. Switched to advanced mode and I'm flying and landing for the last three days with no problems. For some reason, I'm obsessed with perfect landings. I watch a lot of videos and so many people are pumping the crap out of the elevator on landing...then bouncing the plane all over the place. Anyway, I'm just trying to gauge how long I should continue with the sim before trying actual flight.
Old 08-27-2016, 07:38 AM
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jester_s1
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I'm not self taught, but I can comment on the difference between the simulator and real life. There are 2 differences, IMO. The first is that in real life you have depth perception and varying ways that the light alters the appearance of your plane. The first is an advantage for real flying, while the latter can make it more difficult until you get used to it. The other issue is that the effects of air turbulence is less consistent in real life than in the sim. When you do your wind speed and turbulence settings in the sim, the effect is consistent everywhere and throughout the flight. In real life, wind is always changing, faster and slower speed and different amounts of turbulence in different places and at different times. So real flying will surprose you a bit more often with odd movements ofhte plane, although the stability system in your apprentice will smooth a lot of that out. If you are comfortable on the sim, you are probably ready to fly the real plane. Just be ready for weird responses to air turbulence and observe what's really happening, not what you expect to happen.
Old 08-27-2016, 07:40 AM
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I used the Sim for a few weeks before attempting real flight. And even then I flew with an instructor twice before flying by myself. On the sim the plane seems to fly slower but I noticed it's easier to see the plane in the sky during real flight. What field in Tampa are planning on flying from? I can certainly recommend a wonderful place with a great group of guys if you're interested. Welcome to a great hobby.
Old 08-27-2016, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AllModesR/C
What field in Tampa are planning on flying from? I can certainly recommend a wonderful place with a great group of guys if you're interested. Welcome to a great hobby.
None at the moment. Have a place to recommend...I'm all ears. And thank you.
Old 08-27-2016, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1
I'm not self taught, but I can comment on the difference between the simulator and real life. There are 2 differences, IMO. The first is that in real life you have depth perception and varying ways that the light alters the appearance of your plane. The first is an advantage for real flying, while the latter can make it more difficult until you get used to it. The other issue is that the effects of air turbulence is less consistent in real life than in the sim. When you do your wind speed and turbulence settings in the sim, the effect is consistent everywhere and throughout the flight. In real life, wind is always changing, faster and slower speed and different amounts of turbulence in different places and at different times. So real flying will surprose you a bit more often with odd movements ofhte plane, although the stability system in your apprentice will smooth a lot of that out. If you are comfortable on the sim, you are probably ready to fly the real plane. Just be ready for weird responses to air turbulence and observe what's really happening, not what you expect to happen.
Thank you for that input!!
Old 08-27-2016, 03:10 PM
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First of all, I learned to fly before simulators were available, so I can't answer your question completely. But, I've taught a lot of guys to fly and I do have some thoughts regarding your question.

One of the greatest challenges facing a newbie is proper turn commands when the model is coming toward you. As you have noticed, the inputs seem to be reversed from those when the model is flying away from you. It's in this arena that I feel flight simulators are extremely valuable. I would recommend you spend a lot of time flying the model toward you and then beyond as you would in a low approach and go-around. When you are comfortable doing approaches and go-arounds it would be time to learn about the next most important learning tool we have, the buddy box. Get yourself a good instructor, set up the buddy box, and have yourself a ball!
Old 08-27-2016, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by exfed
First of all, I learned to fly before simulators were available, so I can't answer your question completely. But, I've taught a lot of guys to fly and I do have some thoughts regarding your question.

One of the greatest challenges facing a newbie is proper turn commands when the model is coming toward you. As you have noticed, the inputs seem to be reversed from those when the model is flying away from you. It's in this arena that I feel flight simulators are extremely valuable. I would recommend you spend a lot of time flying the model toward you and then beyond as you would in a low approach and go-around. When you are comfortable doing approaches and go-arounds it would be time to learn about the next most important learning tool we have, the buddy box. Get yourself a good instructor, set up the buddy box, and have yourself a ball!
Thank you sir! I have the control "reversing" down. I've been in into playing with and racing r/c cars and boats since the late 70's, so I have that mentality of operating as if you were in the seat. I've been concentrating on trying to get perfect approaches and landings. I find take offs in varying wind conditions to be second nature now. I just find landings to be fascinating. And with that, I'm trying my best to get them down like a real plane landing. I watch a lot of videos and see many people pumping the elevator and bouncing the plane upon landing...not cool.
Old 08-28-2016, 05:26 AM
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From: http://home.utah.edu/~msm25/Funnies/airlines.html

Another flight Attendant's comment on a less than perfect landing: "We ask you to please remain seated as Captain Kangaroo bounces us to the terminal."
Old 08-28-2016, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by flyboy2610
From: http://home.utah.edu/~msm25/Funnies/airlines.html

Another flight Attendant's comment on a less than perfect landing: "We ask you to please remain seated as Captain Kangaroo bounces us to the terminal."
That was a good one! I like the one with the little old lady asking the pilot if they were shot down lol
Old 08-28-2016, 04:24 PM
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Nexstars were only good for the sim that was included, and those that I've trained were ready to fly as soon as they were landing consistently on the sim. You'll find physics makes things slightly different, but nothing you can't correct. Nothing hard about flying if you got orientation down, it's the landing that is the final step to graduating out of trainers before bad habits develop that keeps you in trainers. The steep dihedral is not common in other aircraft so throwing sticks around like you can on a trainer with small control surfaces makes for a very nervous 2nd level plane experience. Get your landings down, and get out of it, move to a tail dragger/low wing trainer fast. Those students are the ones that progressed the fastest. Some, never leave a trainer, and that's fine as long as they don't mind limited aerobatics...speed...warbirds...
I coax many to try a .60 size Stick, as they were also trainers for sim graduates.
Old 08-29-2016, 03:34 AM
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I also just thought of this. On the sim, every plane is built perfectly and trimmed perfectly. Every surface is straight, airfoils are accurate, thrustlines are set right, and planes are balanced right. That's rarely true in the real world, at least not until you put the time in to fine tune your plane. So a real plane will be a bit less predictable than the one on the sim. Many beginners won't even notice the difference, but as you progress it can get frustrating when the real plane doesn't make that perfect loop or roll like the one on the sim does without the pilot compensating for that particular plane's quirks.
Old 08-29-2016, 02:12 PM
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With that in mind, how are ARF planes in general? I have zero desire to build a plane from a box of sticks or even worse...plans. I'm all about the ARF. And I see beautiful giant scale ARF warbirds and civilian planes in the high 3 to 4 figure territory for just the plane itself, some even come with the retracts. I would hope that in those price ranges, that the plane is damn near perfect.
Old 08-29-2016, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by J330
Get your landings down, and get out of it, move to a tail dragger/low wing trainer fast
I plan on it. ASAP!
Old 08-29-2016, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnnysplits
With that in mind, how are ARF planes in general?
EP or GP? I have zero ARF experience with foam, or EP from Tower. But if you want a background on glow powered ARF's, here are my experiences:

Yes, many arf's are excellent and well priced. Some are far from anything I'd own. You have to be selective.
Keep in mind ARFs are production made, glue is at a minimum and the monokote "type" covering can cause headaches, and is used to literally hold things together. Kits are stronger, or can be made stronger. You'd me amazed actually how quickly a box of sticks can come together. I enjoy it a lot, especially the older stuff. But an ARF is always fast 4 hour build and you're in the sky, with clearly many exceptions. Trainers and sport planes are what I'm saying, no flaps, retracts, cowls to cut, typically 4 servo flight packs.
For an even faster build time and low dollar ARF cost, http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=2926 $129.95. The control surfaces are already hinged and strong. The engine mount is already mounted to the fuselage. The covering is acceptable. The tailset bolts on and aligns the pieces which is a great clamp for epoxy to make it strong. They fly great. I probably had 4 of them some years back and got everyone buying into them because it's literally 3 hours and you're flying. You can brush on finish resin which is just thin epoxy, on the firewall, bulk head, fuel compartment, and wing halves. Adds considerably to the life of the model as well as prevent gluing it anyway after a hard landing.

EP, they're made as light as possible to compensate for less power and longer battery life doing less work. They're not happy on windy days. If you do get EP, be extremely careful about arming the throttle as it can start and cut you up fast before you know it and not stop until you turn the throttle stick back down to idle! Glow, it doesn't suddenly start on its own. Many injuries are reported for this reason. But a $49.95 overstock deal is going on 50% off for an EP balsa model. Not sure how it flies. Buy two! http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopdisplayprod...verstock+Sales
Old 08-30-2016, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by J330
EP or GP? I have zero ARF experience with foam, or EP from Tower. But if you want a background on glow powered ARF's, here are my experiences:

Yes, many arf's are excellent and well priced. Some are far from anything I'd own. You have to be selective.
Keep in mind ARFs are production made, glue is at a minimum and the monokote "type" covering can cause headaches, and is used to literally hold things together. Kits are stronger, or can be made stronger. You'd me amazed actually how quickly a box of sticks can come together. I enjoy it a lot, especially the older stuff. But an ARF is always fast 4 hour build and you're in the sky, with clearly many exceptions. Trainers and sport planes are what I'm saying, no flaps, retracts, cowls to cut, typically 4 servo flight packs.
For an even faster build time and low dollar ARF cost, http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=2926 $129.95. The control surfaces are already hinged and strong. The engine mount is already mounted to the fuselage. The covering is acceptable. The tailset bolts on and aligns the pieces which is a great clamp for epoxy to make it strong. They fly great. I probably had 4 of them some years back and got everyone buying into them because it's literally 3 hours and you're flying. You can brush on finish resin which is just thin epoxy, on the firewall, bulk head, fuel compartment, and wing halves. Adds considerably to the life of the model as well as prevent gluing it anyway after a hard landing.

EP, they're made as light as possible to compensate for less power and longer battery life doing less work. They're not happy on windy days. If you do get EP, be extremely careful about arming the throttle as it can start and cut you up fast before you know it and not stop until you turn the throttle stick back down to idle! Glow, it doesn't suddenly start on its own. Many injuries are reported for this reason. But a $49.95 overstock deal is going on 50% off for an EP balsa model. Not sure how it flies. Buy two! http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopdisplayprod...verstock+Sales
The ARF's that I'm interested in, after I learn how to fly, are giant scale gas powered planes.
Old 08-30-2016, 02:03 PM
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If you are sticking with the major manufacturers with established reputations, the ARFs are good enough for the top competitors in the country along with easily 95% of all RC pilots in the world. Yes, kits can be built stronger and made more durable, and you can customize a kit to suit your preferences. Yes, scratch building can give you a plane that is both stronger than an ARF and lighter too if you are meticulous with your wood selection and use good building techniques. That said, ARFs from (in no particular order) Hangar 9, Top Flite, Phoenix, Aeroworks, CompArf and others are very serviceable airplanes that will fly nicely if you set them up properly and take the time to do good flight trimming. Of course, proper setup and trimming is necessary on a hand built plane too, but it's generally not necessary to explain to to the guys who like working on their planes. The ARF crowd is more prone to the "unbox it, fly it, and if I don't like it, sell it" mentality. If you decide a couple of years into this that you want to own something nicer than the ARFs with lots of scale detailing and such, it'll be time then to consider a kit or plans from Nosen or Ziroli. But you have nothing to worry about with buying ARFs, as the vast majority of RC pilots today fly nothing else.
Old 08-30-2016, 02:30 PM
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ARF's are fine, and as was said, many never fly anything else. But there is something wonderfully satisfying about building a kit plane and flying it. It's that feeling of pride in a job well done and being able to say to yourself "Hey, I built that!" If you decide to stick with the hobby, I'd recommend building at least one kit in your career. Chances are it won't be the last.
Old 08-30-2016, 04:36 PM
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I hear what you guys are saying regarding kits. I have plenty of tools, equipment, and time. I'm off from work Fri, Sat, Sun. However since my divorce, I unfortunately now live in a one bedroom apartment. All my stuff is jammed in a small storage closet on my patio and in a walk-in closet in the bedroom. An ARF is my only choice if I want a hand in assembly. I couldn't even have a lot of planes. I could probably squeeze two giant scale planes in my place and that's it. Getting one in my car is whole other story. I'm sure there are a ton of guys who would build a kit for me at a price. What that price is...who knows.
Old 08-30-2016, 06:56 PM
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You're easily going to spend over $1,000 to get giant scale in the air, maybe buy one second hand RTF from the marketplace. Strong servos, fancy power, adds up quick. Look at this super deal and in Astor FL. You can go fishing, camping, and come home with your dream plane in one trip up I-4 to Rt 40. http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/ite...itemId=1082065

It's glow 3 cylinder, easily get most of your money back auctioning that off for market value and replace it with a gas engine. Nothing sounds like a 4 stroke Saito.

OR $425.00 for plane, servos, and an os 120 four stroke. (was the original engine before I bought the
Radial) It flies great with the 120, but I had to have a radial engine.

OR $ 300.00 with only the plane and servos.



Last edited by J330; 08-30-2016 at 07:02 PM.
Old 08-31-2016, 08:00 AM
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I used the simulator for several months and then had a buddy box for my first day. My plane was a .46 trainer. Big is GOOD!

An E-Flite Apprentice is a good choice.

For me, the noticeable differences between Sim and actual flying:

1. There isn't a reset button; don't be surprised if your hands are a little shaky.

2. Unless you're at a very large flying field, you will quickly cover ground faster than you practiced in the simulator; more frequent turning.

3. As previously mentioned; WIND/Air Movement/Thermal.

4. Mechanical failures are REAL. Double check all fittings and test your equipment. Watch for binding at control surfaces.

5. Servos: Slop/Play, control surface movement, control horn/rod placement.

6. Vision; you CAN safely look away from the computer monitor while flying if you're distracted....this is NOT something you can do while flying R/C. If there's a bee flying around you, get your spotter to help out. Keep your eyes on the aircraft at all times.

7. Watch your fingers; a simulator won't remove skin but a real propeller will.

8. Senses; the human body is a complex machine, more so than your simulator. I'm envious of you for what is coming. The sights, sounds, smells....all new to you!

9. You WILL have a bigger smile flying real R/C compared to your simulator

Good Luck and Clear Skies. Let the community know if you need anything and feel free to share your experiences!

-PD
Old 08-31-2016, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by philakapd
I used the simulator for several months and then had a buddy box for my first day. My plane was a .46 trainer. Big is GOOD!

An E-Flite Apprentice is a good choice.

For me, the noticeable differences between Sim and actual flying:

1. There isn't a reset button; don't be surprised if your hands are a little shaky.

2. Unless you're at a very large flying field, you will quickly cover ground faster than you practiced in the simulator; more frequent turning.

3. As previously mentioned; WIND/Air Movement/Thermal.

4. Mechanical failures are REAL. Double check all fittings and test your equipment. Watch for binding at control surfaces.

5. Servos: Slop/Play, control surface movement, control horn/rod placement.

6. Vision; you CAN safely look away from the computer monitor while flying if you're distracted....this is NOT something you can do while flying R/C. If there's a bee flying around you, get your spotter to help out. Keep your eyes on the aircraft at all times.

7. Watch your fingers; a simulator won't remove skin but a real propeller will.

8. Senses; the human body is a complex machine, more so than your simulator. I'm envious of you for what is coming. The sights, sounds, smells....all new to you!

9. You WILL have a bigger smile flying real R/C compared to your simulator

Good Luck and Clear Skies. Let the community know if you need anything and feel free to share your experiences!

-PD
Awesome!!! Thank you for that!!
Old 08-31-2016, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by J330
You're easily going to spend over $1,000 to get giant scale in the air, maybe buy one second hand RTF from the marketplace. Strong servos, fancy power, adds up quick. Look at this super deal and in Astor FL. You can go fishing, camping, and come home with your dream plane in one trip up I-4 to Rt 40. http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/ite...itemId=1082065

It's glow 3 cylinder, easily get most of your money back auctioning that off for market value and replace it with a gas engine. Nothing sounds like a 4 stroke Saito.

OR $425.00 for plane, servos, and an os 120 four stroke. (was the original engine before I bought the
Radial) It flies great with the 120, but I had to have a radial engine.

OR $ 300.00 with only the plane and servos.


That is a nice plane. Can't beat the $300 deal. However, being that I'm just getting into planes, I wouldn't know what to look at...to know just by looking if the thing was crashed then repaired. Cars, trucks, boats...I know exactly what to look for. So, nothing sounds like a 4 stroke Saito huh? I'll have to check it out. But I'm sure it doesn't sound as good as a 400 Moki. And besides, I'm so done with nitro engines. Those engines are long dead and buried for me. Which brings me to another subject...instructors. Never dealt with one and don't know what to expect.
Old 08-31-2016, 02:16 PM
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He said he never crashed it, has great rep, and people aren't selling quads, aren't lacking scruples. I got a lot of other things I can do right now, but like the help you get, he's one of us. Nothing to see, it's clean as he stated. You can see crash damage. If you can't, don't worry about it! Youtube any Saito radial, I'd buy the whole thing and end up with a $100 plane net. That's just me. (They're glow engines.)
Try to be positive.
Old 08-31-2016, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by J330
He said he never crashed it, has great rep, and people aren't selling quads, aren't lacking scruples. I got a lot of other things I can do right now, but like the help you get, he's one of us. Nothing to see, it's clean as he stated. You can see crash damage. If you can't, don't worry about it! Youtube any Saito radial, I'd buy the whole thing and end up with a $100 plane net. That's just me. (They're glow engines.)
Try to be positive.
I gotcha.
Old 08-31-2016, 02:55 PM
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Ahh the Saito radial is run on gas. I like it!

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