jcmors

I'm beginning to see a pattern here. AMA members, offering to help with suggestions and plans. An organization that is running at a net loss, needing to cut spending and... hey let's HIRE people to do these jobs rather than ask for suggestions and help from our members! After all, we ran at a deficit last year, what's another few hundred thousand in outlay for salaries! I feel like an idiot for starting this thread thinking it might help!

fliers1

What's so interesting is they wasted so much money on so many things that didn't pan out and several of us here offered to save their bacon for free and they turned us down.

Hydro Junkie

You're not an idiot. IF you can forget about the AMA and look at what will keep the hobby going, this thread could be a viable help to others. Now, let's go back to my first post. "I don't think the hobby will actually die but I do see the AMA not being part of it. That said, ALL ACTIVITIES that require instruction and dedication, not to mention practice, to actually participate are hurting, be it model aviation, dancing, woodworking, etc. I know this has been said before, but people today don't want to do anything that requires effort on their part."
After rereading that paragraph, I can see a few things that we can do to "jump start" the hobby:

• Approach schools and see if if they would be interested in adding model aviation to their science classes
• Place fliers in hobby and craft stores(with permission of course) about your club but with no mention of the AMA
• Hold special events and invite the public to them.

If you can get one person into the hobby by doing any of the above, I would consider that a win.

Hydro Junkie

Let's think about this. Anyone that offered to do anything that was accepted was taking away the EC's ability to say "WE DID THIS". The EC doesn't want to have to share credit with anyone. By paying someone to do something, they can pat themselves on the back for their perceived accomplishments.

franklin_m

I maintain that the local club field: close to where people live and work, with paved and grass runways, other basic amenities, welcoming members, for a reasonable price - is the best selling point for the hobby. I have to think the solution lies somewhere in that space.

fliers1

You go to an auto dealer and the salesman goes out of his way to get you into a new car by offering you a test drive. He says take the car out and bring it back the next day.
Now imagine if all RC flying clubs did something similar?
A club member insist that a spectator get flying experience on a club trainer that was always on hand, ready to fly. This is done on a 7 day a week basis. The spectator is guaranteed to receive at least 20 minutes solid of flying experience and is allowed to land, with minimal assistance, within that time. That is precisely what I've been doing for decades. This is what I'm trying to pass on to other clubs, instructors or anyone who would want to help out their club by learning how to do this. This promotional concept is for the big picture. This is entirely feasible for all clubs. Mass and rapid growth will definitely follow.

https://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/forumdisplay.php?f=115

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Maybe the AMA Foundation can give them some $$ to stay solvent..........

Astro

jcmors

All good points Hydro. Good suggestions as well. I may try mentioning some of these thoughts during the next club meeting. There are lots of intelligent people in this hobby, in AND out of the AMA!

jcmors

Agreed, which is why I thought that maybe AMA HQ could send topics for discussion ideas to local club leadership to foster conversation and suggestions from the membership and to discuss local activities and actions that could help. Yes, local club fields, close to where members live and work. Seems like an intuitive concept. Common sense really. Too much common sense perhaps?

Hydro Junkie

I just had a thought. If you have a large shopping center in your area, maybe you could get them to rope off one of the parking areas and use that as a place to show off a bit. Obviously, that would require slower aircraft that don't need as much room, a perfect location for Kadets or maybe Four Stars, if the logistics could be worked out. If that could be set up, it would be a no brainer to be able to show people how safe planes are and, if you really want to get crazy, maybe have some law abiding droners show how to fly a drone responsibly and not be stupid "just because they can"

edit
Had another "add on" to the above. If an event like that could be set up, it might be nice to not only fly the slower planes but also have some of the larger/faster/more complex planes on display for Q&A with the owner/builder/pilots. I wouldn't have the answers be to "techie" as that would chase people off(unless the questioner really wants to know or is a builder/flyer already). Again, this would not be something to advertise the AMA but would be to advertise the hobby and that there are clubs in the area

jcmors

The club I belong to does do a mall show every year but it doesn't include actual flying demonstrations. This is a great idea! It may even attract people's attention and after stopping by the parking lot they might go shop in the mall, giving incentive to the mall for roping off the parking lot space. We do also have a few members with "drones" as well. Just to advertise the hobby and make people aware of what we are about. Even those not interested in joining or participating in the hobby at least would get a picture of what the traditional model aircraft hobby is really like, that it is safe and harmless if done correctly.

Thanks Hydro!

Hydro Junkie

I'd look at the Dunham's Sports end of the mall. It gives you the most room and not as many pedestrians as there could be in the middle of the mall(the bank) or the other end(The Fryn' Pan)

fliers1

This written a few years ago. Maybe things have improved since then.

"One of our biggest events for about 5 years running was having two booths in the Old Humble Oil Days. That was a downtown Humble, TX show of all kinds of stuff, booths lined back to back for 6 or more blocks down Main Street. Lots of folks coming by. We had all the things, models of all sizes, simulators, actual LARGE Trainer with Transmitter. and Buddy Cord for demonstrating how actual training worked. Lots of old magazines, with Club info inserted in, Club/Event Flyers for when, where,, contacts and about everything one could imagine for showing our fine facility on Club-Owned 50 acres with 5000 ft. shelter, and indoor rest facilities.
Each year, the CLUB AND A LHS DONATED AWARDS including a low cost electric trainer for a raffle at the show.

DID WE EVER GET A NEW MEMBER OUT OF THAT? NOT ONE! Therefore we shut the program down as the club could no longer invest the 3-500 Yankee dollars each year it cost us to show there with ZERO return on investment.

We have advertised and performed the AMA TAG program a number of times. In Sep. '09, we had a huge IMAC event. Sunday afternoon we ran a TAG program. Over 40 - I forget actual number - spectators received both simulator time and actual hands-on training by Club Intro. Pilots. Any new members? Not that I know of."

Hydro Junkie

Trust me, I get it. That was why I said "If you get one new member". The idea I had, in this case, was more to build public trust than anything else. Right now, the public doesn't trust anyone that flies anything. To turn the situation around, we need to rebuilt that trust and prove the sensationalized media coverage got it wrong. I'll be the first to admit that's going to take a lot of work since there are those that will invariably undermine anything the rest of us do by flying a drone in an illegal or unsafe way. It's a fact of life that we have to prove it's someone that is either ignorant of the laws and rules or just a public menace to the rest of the population and not, as they are being told by politicians and the media, a hobby wide problem

jcmors

That would indeed be a good location. The Fryn' Pan just recently re opened to indoor seating again. There really isn't much inside the mall any longer. Even before Covid... signs of the times.

jcmors

This, exactly. Publicity and making the public aware that it really isn't the traditional model aircraft hobbyist that is causing all the issues they read about. The public by and large is not aware of the fact that a safe, fun hobby exists and is practiced by folks who take care to fly in a safe manner and in safe places. Publicise the concept that the sensational news stories are not caused by actual hobbyists.

Hydro Junkie

Wow, this thread went silent. Doesn't anyone have anything more to add?

jcmors

Hydro, It is interesting isn't it that the crowd that seems to frequent other threads to stand behind the AMA no matter what, when given the chance to voice some positive suggestions and share their thoughts on how to leverage the intelligence and experience of our diverse members, have absolutely nothing to share. I do appreciate your input, thoughts and ideas.

fliers1

What I've been doing for decades is offering to let anyone and everyone fly my trainers, whether they can afford to buy anything or not. At least they will have the experience to pass on to others. They will say that learning to fly RC airplanes is not nearly as difficult as many would have you believe. Word of mouth works wonders. There are so many used outfits out there that many veteran fliers would have no problem donating. I've given over a dozen airplane outfits away over the years. I've gone to many high schools to teach students and teachers, but I believe those programs were taken over by clubs, so I don't know what happened after that. Note, all clubs teach using a buddy-box, so to me, that is very telling that it didn't go very well. My plan, as everyone is probably very sick of hearing about, is to train others how use my marketing/promotion/training method. So far, that hasn't panned out very well. Why? I can only guess. There you have it, my mass and rapid growth plan. Anyone interested?

jcmors

fliers, It would seem that there aren't many who are even interested in joining a discussion about thoughts and ideas regarding things that can be done or tried to advance the hobby, increase membership or use the talents of the many members that are left in the organization. When I started this thread I actually expected to see some ideas and thoughts generated, actionable things that might help with some of the issues we are facing. Unfortunately I think many believe there is nothing to worry about. I'm flying the way I always have, I'm not seeing any horrible changes happening, alot of talk and new rules and regulations but no one is paying any attention to them including the FAA. A vast number of our fellow hobbyists, I think, are the proverbial frog in the slowing heating hot water. I actually spoke with a few members during the NPRM comment period who had heard about it but it "was only for those drones" and it took a great deal of effort to finally show them that the term drone included us. Should it? In my opinion, no however it DOES, that is a fact of life and once they understood what was going on they were very concerned. As ridiculous as it may sound I think there are many hobbyists who still don't understand the hobby killing effects of what is going on and how close it is to becoming reality.
The same applies to your method of teaching. I can imagine many saying or thinking, we have been doing things this way for 25 years,50 years, 80 years and we are still here. The buddy box system works, yes it is hard, learning to fly should be hard... etc. The resistance to anything new, any new approach to training and other things, new building materials (foam instead of balsa for example), new technology (SAFE and other training aids) is strong.

fliers1

I've been in this hobby close to 50 years and tend to agree with your assessment of the situation. What I thought would be a better idea was to change "instruction" to "marketing and promotion" method. I mistakenly thought that would appeal more so to those who have a bottom line to think about rather than club member/instructors who feel they don't need to improve their teaching method nor increase their numbers. All growth thoughts falls on the will and whim of each clubs instructors. I'm hoping that I planted a seed with AMA looking to hire a Membership Acquisition Leader. For all intents and purposes, that is the only way to go. But what could she or he do that already hasn't been tried?
More than likely, unlike industry members, including AMA, most clubs are quite satisfied with their status quo.

jcmors

My thought on hiring a Membership Acquisition specialist would be to ask, have we tried to elicit help from our membership, from our clubs, from people like yourself?

If AMA headquarters were to send out suggestions, monthly for a topic of discussion at local club membership meetings and receive answers, suggestions and feedback might that generate a few new ideas, thoughts and things to try that have not been tried yet?

I believe that real membership acquisition, if there is to be any, has to be done at the local level. The AMA can help by publicizing the hobby and getting the excitement for the hobby in general out there but it will be up to local clubs and interested hobbyists to bring more people in. There are many things that can be done to help make participation in our hobby more attractive. Most clubs have a club trainer, maybe two for larger clubs but equipment and startup costs to get into this hobby are generally high.

Look at what organizations like FliteTest are doing. They have a wide selection of low cost model aircraft within the reach of most parents budgets. They have events that involve young folks in experiencing the fun of flight with a model that doesn't break the bank. Could the AMA do something similar, could we have club events that are centered around bringing in kids and adults alike and exposing them to the hobby? I had really hoped for this thread to be an idea generator. It sounds as though you have an innovative idea and yet it isn't "the way we have always done things" so.... ???

fliers1

I belonged to six different clubs and all dragged their feet as far as flight instruction goes. You know, once a week for ten minutes of 4 mistakes high, "give me the transmitter" "I got it, you got it." "come back next week." It rains the next training day. So on and so forth. Many times the instructor didn't show up. Then there were a half dozen beginners and one instructor..me. That was after I just finished 12 hours at work and an hour or two doing yard work.
I trained 5 and just didn't have it in me to train the last one. He got a bit peeved because I didn't give him some stick time. Talk about burnout. I know, someone is going to come on and say his club does a great job of teaching.
That's when I started a pro flight school. I probably trained a few hundred over the years. Most came from clubs whose instructors claimed did a great job of teaching. Now why would they travel hundreds miles to pay me and Dave Scott a few hundred dollars if their clubs did such a great job of teaching? Many had been in their clubs for years and never even got any successful landing training. Only those who have personal experience with hundreds of beginners who have such knowledge.

I've written many emails to AMA HQ. I did receive a couple of replies, but it was on the order of, "most clubs have excellent flight instruction programs." Or, "your method works for you but may not work for others." My method is all but guaranteed to work for everyone. It's not rocket science. I've given rudimentary RT instruction to only one or two others. They loved it and found it was much easier (kinesthtic) then using the buddy-box. I'm talking the RT is much, much more productive. Just as a promotional tool, it can attract and retain large numbers of newcomers to the hobby. What's the problem? I have videos and testimonials to prove it.

fliers1

What's quite interesting that we never seem to hear any complaints from frustrated beginners. If they complained to AMA's top brass, chances are they won't get a reply, and if they do, it will probably be, "flight training is a voluntary system and we have no control over volunteers." Several years ago, I did read on a related forum, don't remember which one, a beginner did indeed complain. He was immediately flamed, big time. He was accused of doing something wrong. He didn't approach the club in the correct manner or some such charge. Never the less, we didn't hear from him or any other beginner again. So, because we don't hear any beginner complaints, it appears that all beginners are happy with their club's flight instruction programs.

Hydro Junkie

Okay guys, I found a video on You Tube that covers exactly what I was saying when I said that we need to show we are safe and recover the public trust that many "droners" lost for us. This covers RVs overnighting in a Walmart lot but it kind of shows our problem as well.