Jeti-duplex-ds-16-2.4-ghz
10-30-2013, 08:21 AM
#26
JohnMac,
I was also wondering about the effect of a single Central Box on the overall system redundancy. I don't know enough about the internal circuitry of the Central Box to answer your question so I called Esprit and spoke to ZB who said he'd post something here today.
When looking at overall system reliability and redunduancy, one would have to look at all the items, their individual components, the failure rates of these components, the failure mode, and the effect on the overall system. For instance, we're saying right now that there is only one Central Box. Well, perhaps the Central Box has dual circuitry (like the transmitter has two RF modules) which provides redundancy. Alternatively, if the electronic design/components of the Box has a reliability which far greater than another component in the system, then using a single box has a limited effect on the overall system reliability.
The failure mode and effects of a component, assembly, or sub-system is also quite critical to the overall system reliability and safety. Let's examine the case of using two receivers. The user thinks that their system has redundancy and is therefore less likely to fail. That may be a bit simplistic. A properly designed system must consider several factors.
- The failure must be identifiable. If the first receiver fails and second receiver takes over, a properly designed system will give the user some indication of the failure so that the failed item can be repaired/replaced. If no indication is given, the user simply continues using the now non-redundant system. A failure of the second receiver at some time in the future causes the entire system to fail.
- Secondly, the failure must be survivable. If the failure mode of the chip in the receiver is such that it causes all the servos to go hard over to their end stop, then the plane is in for a wild ride should one of the receivers fail.
One should also consider the failure modes and effects of the other system components such as the battery or servos. The Central Box has a power distribution system that, should one of the batteries fail, it is disconnected from the circuit. Should a servo overamp, the power to that servo is cut off. That's all very good and provides better protection than a single battery plugged into a single (dumb) receiver where any failure of the battery or an overamping servo may easily lead to loss of the plane. In post #22, I mentioned the case of a Hawk or F-4 using two servos to drive a flying stab. I've seen a variety of servos fail over the years and, far too often, the failure mode is that they jam. In that case, it wouldn't matter if you have two transmitter modules, two receivers, two batteries, etc, that single jammed servo will prevent the other servo from controling the stab and the plane is likely lost.
Over the years, I've experienced several radio system failures.
- My first was with a prop plane when I was a teenager. The plane was on the back side of the circuit, was flying just fine, when it suddenly nosed down and went in at full throttle (even though I pulled the throttle back to idle on the way down). Net result...total loss of the aircraft and all components and I bought a new radio.
- My second was an in-flight failure of the servo gear train on a taileron-only turbine F-18. Failure of the servo led to loss of pitch and roll control which led to loss of the airframe and many components inside.
- The third was failure of the transmitter battery which was old (I really should have known better). Net result...loss of the Bandit airframe, turbine, and most components.
- My fourth was last year and appeared to be a receiver failure. The failure mode was that it would intermittantly drive a servo over to one side and then back to neutral. I replaced the servo and the same result was encountered. I disconnected the servo (it wasn't on a critical function) and continued flying since I was at an event (dumb...the plane was talking to me and I wasn't listening). Then the failure moved to the elevator (which is a critical function). Net result, major damage to the airframe requiring replacement.
I suppose it all comes down to what with what you are most comfortable. Back in the day, we flew jets on 1800 mah NiCads, through a single switch plugged into a single receiver and it all seemed to work fine (it wasn't like our planes were falling out of the sky left, right, and center) . These days we've got with dual receivers, dual batteries, dual switches, dual regulators, power distribution systems, and just about every gizmo known to mankind. Are all of these things making planes safer? I suppose, but the number one reason for planes crashing is still dumb thumbs (just ask mine).
I've had my Jeti system for about a month now and am still learning and testing new things. I'm happy with it. Is it perfect? No, probably not, but it appears to be safer and more capable than any other radio I've ever had or seen.
Regards,
Jim
I was also wondering about the effect of a single Central Box on the overall system redundancy. I don't know enough about the internal circuitry of the Central Box to answer your question so I called Esprit and spoke to ZB who said he'd post something here today.
When looking at overall system reliability and redunduancy, one would have to look at all the items, their individual components, the failure rates of these components, the failure mode, and the effect on the overall system. For instance, we're saying right now that there is only one Central Box. Well, perhaps the Central Box has dual circuitry (like the transmitter has two RF modules) which provides redundancy. Alternatively, if the electronic design/components of the Box has a reliability which far greater than another component in the system, then using a single box has a limited effect on the overall system reliability.
The failure mode and effects of a component, assembly, or sub-system is also quite critical to the overall system reliability and safety. Let's examine the case of using two receivers. The user thinks that their system has redundancy and is therefore less likely to fail. That may be a bit simplistic. A properly designed system must consider several factors.
- The failure must be identifiable. If the first receiver fails and second receiver takes over, a properly designed system will give the user some indication of the failure so that the failed item can be repaired/replaced. If no indication is given, the user simply continues using the now non-redundant system. A failure of the second receiver at some time in the future causes the entire system to fail.
- Secondly, the failure must be survivable. If the failure mode of the chip in the receiver is such that it causes all the servos to go hard over to their end stop, then the plane is in for a wild ride should one of the receivers fail.
One should also consider the failure modes and effects of the other system components such as the battery or servos. The Central Box has a power distribution system that, should one of the batteries fail, it is disconnected from the circuit. Should a servo overamp, the power to that servo is cut off. That's all very good and provides better protection than a single battery plugged into a single (dumb) receiver where any failure of the battery or an overamping servo may easily lead to loss of the plane. In post #22, I mentioned the case of a Hawk or F-4 using two servos to drive a flying stab. I've seen a variety of servos fail over the years and, far too often, the failure mode is that they jam. In that case, it wouldn't matter if you have two transmitter modules, two receivers, two batteries, etc, that single jammed servo will prevent the other servo from controling the stab and the plane is likely lost.
Over the years, I've experienced several radio system failures.
- My first was with a prop plane when I was a teenager. The plane was on the back side of the circuit, was flying just fine, when it suddenly nosed down and went in at full throttle (even though I pulled the throttle back to idle on the way down). Net result...total loss of the aircraft and all components and I bought a new radio.
- My second was an in-flight failure of the servo gear train on a taileron-only turbine F-18. Failure of the servo led to loss of pitch and roll control which led to loss of the airframe and many components inside.
- The third was failure of the transmitter battery which was old (I really should have known better). Net result...loss of the Bandit airframe, turbine, and most components.
- My fourth was last year and appeared to be a receiver failure. The failure mode was that it would intermittantly drive a servo over to one side and then back to neutral. I replaced the servo and the same result was encountered. I disconnected the servo (it wasn't on a critical function) and continued flying since I was at an event (dumb...the plane was talking to me and I wasn't listening). Then the failure moved to the elevator (which is a critical function). Net result, major damage to the airframe requiring replacement.
I suppose it all comes down to what with what you are most comfortable. Back in the day, we flew jets on 1800 mah NiCads, through a single switch plugged into a single receiver and it all seemed to work fine (it wasn't like our planes were falling out of the sky left, right, and center) . These days we've got with dual receivers, dual batteries, dual switches, dual regulators, power distribution systems, and just about every gizmo known to mankind. Are all of these things making planes safer? I suppose, but the number one reason for planes crashing is still dumb thumbs (just ask mine).
I've had my Jeti system for about a month now and am still learning and testing new things. I'm happy with it. Is it perfect? No, probably not, but it appears to be safer and more capable than any other radio I've ever had or seen.
Regards,
Jim
Last edited by rcjets_63; 10-30-2013 at 08:39 AM.
10-30-2013, 09:26 AM
#28
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We had a long discussion about redundancy in another forum. It really comes down to personal level of acceptable risk. As we know everything man made can and probably will fail, all we can do is to be proactive and preventive.
At this time we identified 4x possible configuration settings for large models. (Transmitter set for Dual Path)
1) Jeti R14 or R18 receiver + ANY other receiver setup as Satellite (ANY Jeti receiver can be wirelessly switched to EX BUS/Digital stream Satellite mode). This way R14 acts like a power hub and uses RF portion of satellite receiver for antenna diversity.
2) 2x Jeti R14/18 individually bind to 2x Transmitter RF Modules. You can see signal strength for both receivers and both antennas directly on the LCD screen. Servos cross connected and cross assigned to the receivers and flying surfaces. (Rx #1 connected to Left Aileron and Right Elevator, Rx #2 to other side)
3) 2x Jeti R14/18 individually bind to 2x Transmitter RF Modules. You can see signal strength for both receivers and both antennas directly on the LCD screen. Servos connected via ANYLINK to Both receivers. If one Battery/RX dies other Battery/Rx takes over.
http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-dual...ink-2rs-2.aspx
EnLink 2RS is essentially intelligent dual input receiver switch for power signals and power supply of the servos. Intended primarily for operation in models where two receivers are connected in parallel configuration. Check the video with two working independent radio systems. Primary Multiplex 72MHz and secondary Duplex 2.4GHz radio systems can operate same servos independently and in the case of turning one of the systems OFF, the other picks up control. EnLink 2RS safely and reliably eliminates signal losses on individual inputs. In case of complete signal failure, EnLink 2RS goes into a default (FailSafe) mode. All features of the EnLink can be directly programmed using the JetiBox.
4) And finally Jeti Central Box 200
http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-cent...ic-switch.aspx
The Central Box 200 is a switchboard designed for the complete management of servos in a model with an emphasis on safety. The Central Box has a unique design that provides overload protection at each servo output. The Central Box can manage up to two batteries and fully supports the Jeti EX telemetry system. Up to two receivers with serial (PPM, EX Bus) output as well as two power batteries can be connected at the same time to the Central Box for complete Power & RF signal redundancy.
With Jeti Duplex 2.4GHz DC/DS transmitters, the full potential of the Central Box can be used, such as an easy way to wirelessly configure the Servo Outputs, EX Telemetry, Fail-Safe Setting or Fast Servo Response.
Included:
(1) Jeti Central Box 200
(1) Magnetic Switch
(1) Magnetic Key
JetiBox Configuration
The JetiBox monitor/programmer can be used for parameter setting and retrieving data. After connecting to the Central Box (Ext1), a startup screen appears that contains identification of the device in the first line of the JetiBox display.
Power Supply
The power batteries are connected to the Central Box using MPX connectors. The Central Box allows two batteries to be connected. During use, the power is actually supplied from the battery with the higher voltage. If the voltage is the same, the power can be used from both batteries at the same time. When the voltage of the batteries is different, the power is not shared and each pack is isolated from the other. This allows you to use batteries of different capacity, number of cells and chemistry type. If the power for the Central Box is provided only from one battery, it can be connected via battery (BATT1) Input.
Magnetic Switch (Included)
The magnetic switch is used to turn the Central Box ON/OFF and is connected to a separate slot labeled "Switch". To turn on the Central Box using the magnetic switch it is necessary to hold the supplied magnet (key) to the target so that the key and the target on the magnetic switch are properly oriented.
Wireless Switch R3/RSW (Optional)
State-of-the-art device that sets Jeti as a leading designer and manufacturer of radio control systems. Wireless power switch is fully integrated into the 2.4GHz radio system. For first time your receiver can be turned ON/OFF with simple flipping of the switch wirelessly from the Jeti DC/DS transmitters.
Features:
- Control Management with Configurable Servo Output
- Power Distribution with Two Independent Inputs
- Firmware Updatable via Jeti USB Adapter
- Jeti Duplex EX Bus or PPM Compatible
- Wirelessly Programmable Using DC/DS Tx Device Explorer
- Independent Receiver Signal Inputs (SAT1, SAT2)
- Up to 15x Servo Outputs with Overload Protection
- Up to 3x Telemetry Sensors Inputs (Ext1, Ext/14, Ext/15)
- Input for Included Magnetic or Optional Wireless Switch
- Input Voltage: 3.5-15V
- Output Current: 2x 10A Continues/90A Peak
- Dimensions/Weight: 62mm x 38mm x 16mm/30g
At this time we identified 4x possible configuration settings for large models. (Transmitter set for Dual Path)
1) Jeti R14 or R18 receiver + ANY other receiver setup as Satellite (ANY Jeti receiver can be wirelessly switched to EX BUS/Digital stream Satellite mode). This way R14 acts like a power hub and uses RF portion of satellite receiver for antenna diversity.
2) 2x Jeti R14/18 individually bind to 2x Transmitter RF Modules. You can see signal strength for both receivers and both antennas directly on the LCD screen. Servos cross connected and cross assigned to the receivers and flying surfaces. (Rx #1 connected to Left Aileron and Right Elevator, Rx #2 to other side)
3) 2x Jeti R14/18 individually bind to 2x Transmitter RF Modules. You can see signal strength for both receivers and both antennas directly on the LCD screen. Servos connected via ANYLINK to Both receivers. If one Battery/RX dies other Battery/Rx takes over.
http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-dual...ink-2rs-2.aspx
EnLink 2RS is essentially intelligent dual input receiver switch for power signals and power supply of the servos. Intended primarily for operation in models where two receivers are connected in parallel configuration. Check the video with two working independent radio systems. Primary Multiplex 72MHz and secondary Duplex 2.4GHz radio systems can operate same servos independently and in the case of turning one of the systems OFF, the other picks up control. EnLink 2RS safely and reliably eliminates signal losses on individual inputs. In case of complete signal failure, EnLink 2RS goes into a default (FailSafe) mode. All features of the EnLink can be directly programmed using the JetiBox.
4) And finally Jeti Central Box 200
http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-cent...ic-switch.aspx
The Central Box 200 is a switchboard designed for the complete management of servos in a model with an emphasis on safety. The Central Box has a unique design that provides overload protection at each servo output. The Central Box can manage up to two batteries and fully supports the Jeti EX telemetry system. Up to two receivers with serial (PPM, EX Bus) output as well as two power batteries can be connected at the same time to the Central Box for complete Power & RF signal redundancy.
With Jeti Duplex 2.4GHz DC/DS transmitters, the full potential of the Central Box can be used, such as an easy way to wirelessly configure the Servo Outputs, EX Telemetry, Fail-Safe Setting or Fast Servo Response.
Included:
(1) Jeti Central Box 200
(1) Magnetic Switch
(1) Magnetic Key
JetiBox Configuration
The JetiBox monitor/programmer can be used for parameter setting and retrieving data. After connecting to the Central Box (Ext1), a startup screen appears that contains identification of the device in the first line of the JetiBox display.
Power Supply
The power batteries are connected to the Central Box using MPX connectors. The Central Box allows two batteries to be connected. During use, the power is actually supplied from the battery with the higher voltage. If the voltage is the same, the power can be used from both batteries at the same time. When the voltage of the batteries is different, the power is not shared and each pack is isolated from the other. This allows you to use batteries of different capacity, number of cells and chemistry type. If the power for the Central Box is provided only from one battery, it can be connected via battery (BATT1) Input.
Magnetic Switch (Included)
The magnetic switch is used to turn the Central Box ON/OFF and is connected to a separate slot labeled "Switch". To turn on the Central Box using the magnetic switch it is necessary to hold the supplied magnet (key) to the target so that the key and the target on the magnetic switch are properly oriented.
Wireless Switch R3/RSW (Optional)
State-of-the-art device that sets Jeti as a leading designer and manufacturer of radio control systems. Wireless power switch is fully integrated into the 2.4GHz radio system. For first time your receiver can be turned ON/OFF with simple flipping of the switch wirelessly from the Jeti DC/DS transmitters.
Features:
- Control Management with Configurable Servo Output
- Power Distribution with Two Independent Inputs
- Firmware Updatable via Jeti USB Adapter
- Jeti Duplex EX Bus or PPM Compatible
- Wirelessly Programmable Using DC/DS Tx Device Explorer
- Independent Receiver Signal Inputs (SAT1, SAT2)
- Up to 15x Servo Outputs with Overload Protection
- Up to 3x Telemetry Sensors Inputs (Ext1, Ext/14, Ext/15)
- Input for Included Magnetic or Optional Wireless Switch
- Input Voltage: 3.5-15V
- Output Current: 2x 10A Continues/90A Peak
- Dimensions/Weight: 62mm x 38mm x 16mm/30g
Last edited by Jeti USA; 10-30-2013 at 09:53 AM.
10-30-2013, 10:19 AM
#30
Hi Jeti USA
My solution for my large model using Jeti is to incorporate a PB SRS Competition and twin RSats.
One of the reasons I've used the PB SRS unit is because it has a integrated duel redundant regs supplying 5.9v to the servos.
If I were to use a Jeti Central Box I could not use the 7.4-8.4v or so from li-fe or lipo packs as like most of us I have "non" HV Servos.
How would the Central Box cope with twin Regs instead of direct battery's.
I'm thinking that I could use perhaps the Max Bec or Max Bec 2 , but using two regs in parallel is usually a no no.
Mark
My solution for my large model using Jeti is to incorporate a PB SRS Competition and twin RSats.
One of the reasons I've used the PB SRS unit is because it has a integrated duel redundant regs supplying 5.9v to the servos.
If I were to use a Jeti Central Box I could not use the 7.4-8.4v or so from li-fe or lipo packs as like most of us I have "non" HV Servos.
How would the Central Box cope with twin Regs instead of direct battery's.
I'm thinking that I could use perhaps the Max Bec or Max Bec 2 , but using two regs in parallel is usually a no no.
Mark
Last edited by Mark Vandervelden; 10-30-2013 at 11:07 AM.
10-30-2013, 03:01 PM
#31
You just lift of with the airplane and bring it up to a good height as you always do on a maiden. If you notice it needs triming just flick a switch of your choice to activete the auto trim. Then just keep flying and the autotrim automaticly trims in the direction of the sticks. If you fly a straight pass and hold let's say 50% right aileron you will notice you need less and less input during the pass and eventually no input is needed. Then just flick the switch again to turn autotrim of. It simply trims in the direction of the stick and is activated by the switch, slider or even accelerometer of your choice.
If you trim manually by your self or if a friend help you it's always a disturbing moment and fumbeling for the trims on any Tx. Specially of the trim of the plane is way of. The auto trim solves this.
Sounds a bit odd at first but works like a charm.
If you trim manually by your self or if a friend help you it's always a disturbing moment and fumbeling for the trims on any Tx. Specially of the trim of the plane is way of. The auto trim solves this.
Sounds a bit odd at first but works like a charm.
10-30-2013, 04:04 PM
#32
Hi Jeti USA
My solution for my large model using Jeti is to incorporate a PB SRS Competition and twin RSats.
One of the reasons I've used the PB SRS unit is because it has a integrated duel redundant regs supplying 5.9v to the servos.
If I were to use a Jeti Central Box I could not use the 7.4-8.4v or so from li-fe or lipo packs as like most of us I have "non" HV Servos.
How would the Central Box cope with twin Regs instead of direct battery's.
I'm thinking that I could use perhaps the Max Bec or Max Bec 2 , but using two regs in parallel is usually a no no.
Mark
My solution for my large model using Jeti is to incorporate a PB SRS Competition and twin RSats.
One of the reasons I've used the PB SRS unit is because it has a integrated duel redundant regs supplying 5.9v to the servos.
If I were to use a Jeti Central Box I could not use the 7.4-8.4v or so from li-fe or lipo packs as like most of us I have "non" HV Servos.
How would the Central Box cope with twin Regs instead of direct battery's.
I'm thinking that I could use perhaps the Max Bec or Max Bec 2 , but using two regs in parallel is usually a no no.
Mark
Zb/Jeti USA
10-31-2013, 01:03 AM
#34
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Personally, I have yet to see a totally redundant RC end to end system. I also agree with you Jim that you need to analyse the system and indentify it's weak points before you decide where to add redundancy. I never had a Rx "fail" in 45 years, although I had a big problem with early PCM Rx's "locking out" in failsafe mode. This was a far eastern supplier that I no longer use. However even their Rx's did not "fail" as such. They did as they were designed to do; they were just badly designed.
In my experience the items most likely to go wrong are batteries and switches, plugs and sockets,and servos. I have completely overcome the battery and switch problem by utilising a twin battery/switch approach in every model that is not a foamy. I always have some indication that the battery is working or not for the reasons you describe.
I have still had battery failures (although since moving to A123 batteries, I have had no further occurrences) but the redundant system has taken care of the situation and the model was recovered safely.
I lost a jet which I believe was down to a short extension lead on the elevon function.It is difficult to say for certain since thee was not much left to investigate.
I lost another jet due to a high end digital servo failure. (I should have stuck to the cheaper brand, they have never let me down). Fornunately this was a relativly low speed crash.
I have seen a powerbox burst into flames, fortunately on the ground. Should such a failure occur in the air the model would be lost. So far I never fitted a powerbox, not because I expect a failure from PB Systems but because it has never been necessary until now. Again, it is a single failure point. What you do not fit cannot go wrong, is my philosophy.
BTW, Jeti is not unique in these ideas, or even the first. I currently use similar systems (dual Rx's) with my Multiplex and my ACT Europe equipment. This offers not just aerial diversity, but spatial diversity too, as well as some degree of Rx redundancy. ACT also offer dual Tx outputs on separate frequencies at any given point in time. Both offer twin Rx's.I think that the Jeti dual path system will aslo use separate frequencies. The extra benefit here is that you have double the output power as each frequency is legally still within the limit, but you are transmitting twice. In all cases we have a superior radio path than with any of the standard systems.
John
In my experience the items most likely to go wrong are batteries and switches, plugs and sockets,and servos. I have completely overcome the battery and switch problem by utilising a twin battery/switch approach in every model that is not a foamy. I always have some indication that the battery is working or not for the reasons you describe.
I have still had battery failures (although since moving to A123 batteries, I have had no further occurrences) but the redundant system has taken care of the situation and the model was recovered safely.
I lost a jet which I believe was down to a short extension lead on the elevon function.It is difficult to say for certain since thee was not much left to investigate.
I lost another jet due to a high end digital servo failure. (I should have stuck to the cheaper brand, they have never let me down). Fornunately this was a relativly low speed crash.
I have seen a powerbox burst into flames, fortunately on the ground. Should such a failure occur in the air the model would be lost. So far I never fitted a powerbox, not because I expect a failure from PB Systems but because it has never been necessary until now. Again, it is a single failure point. What you do not fit cannot go wrong, is my philosophy.
BTW, Jeti is not unique in these ideas, or even the first. I currently use similar systems (dual Rx's) with my Multiplex and my ACT Europe equipment. This offers not just aerial diversity, but spatial diversity too, as well as some degree of Rx redundancy. ACT also offer dual Tx outputs on separate frequencies at any given point in time. Both offer twin Rx's.I think that the Jeti dual path system will aslo use separate frequencies. The extra benefit here is that you have double the output power as each frequency is legally still within the limit, but you are transmitting twice. In all cases we have a superior radio path than with any of the standard systems.
John
Last edited by JohnMac; 10-31-2013 at 01:08 AM. Reason: Spelling
10-31-2013, 02:46 AM
#35
Maybe already mentioned... But one Cool thing with the dual recivers are that you can have a wireless connection. For example if flying with floats they can have their own Rx and battery. Or for Turbine gliders a dolly with it's own life.
10-31-2013, 09:36 AM
#36
I don't see this risk as a RX hardware failure, rather a loss of the RF link to that receiver (caused by in band interference or blocking/poor antenna orientation or whatever).
I have never had any radio failure (apart from one Hitec servo) ever, but I have lost many planes to RF link loss, even on Futaba FAAST.
I agree that combiner box is a single point failure, but if its reliability is much much better than the RF link reliability to one receiver is, then it is a net positive in my opinion.
I have never had any radio failure (apart from one Hitec servo) ever, but I have lost many planes to RF link loss, even on Futaba FAAST.
I agree that combiner box is a single point failure, but if its reliability is much much better than the RF link reliability to one receiver is, then it is a net positive in my opinion.
11-01-2013, 07:34 AM
#37
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I don't see this risk as a RX hardware failure, rather a loss of the RF link to that receiver (caused by in band interference or blocking/poor antenna orientation or whatever).
I have never had any radio failure (apart from one Hitec servo) ever, but I have lost many planes to RF link loss, even on Futaba FAAST.
I agree that combiner box is a single point failure, but if its reliability is much much better than the RF link reliability to one receiver is, then it is a net positive in my opinion.
I have never had any radio failure (apart from one Hitec servo) ever, but I have lost many planes to RF link loss, even on Futaba FAAST.
I agree that combiner box is a single point failure, but if its reliability is much much better than the RF link reliability to one receiver is, then it is a net positive in my opinion.
Zb/Jeti USA
Last edited by Jeti USA; 11-01-2013 at 07:38 AM.
11-01-2013, 04:51 PM
#38
I did some experimenting with the fail safe system and I must say that it is pretty cool.
I'm used to the JR/Spektrum system where you set up the failsafe when binding. With JR/Spektrum, once you set up the all the control throws, you put all the sticks/switches/sliders in the position you want them to go then rebind. Then you have to go into throttle travel and put it back to +/- 75% (for JetCat).
Jeti is completely different. Once you have the control throws set up, you go into a sub-menu to set up the failsafe condition. Each channel is set up individually where you select the failsafe condition as follows:
1) Default" which keeps this servo in its last position before the RF signal was lost
2) "Off" which shuts off the output to this servo
3) "Failsafe" which drives the servo to a preset position.
If you select failsafe, you have to tell the radio what preset position you want the servo to move to should you lose signal.
I wanted all channels (except throttle) to hold and since hold is the default, you get this automatically. The only channel I had to set up separately was to failsafe the throttle to shut down the turbine.
When you choose "Failsafe", a dialogue box pops up where you punch in the preset position you want. This is done by putting in the signal pulse width corresponding to the desired position. That sounds a lot more complicated than it really is because the dialogue box also shows you the pulse width corresponding to the current position of the stick/slider/switch for the channel. In my case, I was setting the throttle channel so I moved the stick to idle and put the trim fully down which gave a pulse width of 1.00 ms. By pressing the increment/decrement buttons, I adjusted the preset value to 1.00 ms. It really is a lot simpler than it sounds.
Jim
I'm used to the JR/Spektrum system where you set up the failsafe when binding. With JR/Spektrum, once you set up the all the control throws, you put all the sticks/switches/sliders in the position you want them to go then rebind. Then you have to go into throttle travel and put it back to +/- 75% (for JetCat).
Jeti is completely different. Once you have the control throws set up, you go into a sub-menu to set up the failsafe condition. Each channel is set up individually where you select the failsafe condition as follows:
1) Default" which keeps this servo in its last position before the RF signal was lost
2) "Off" which shuts off the output to this servo
3) "Failsafe" which drives the servo to a preset position.
If you select failsafe, you have to tell the radio what preset position you want the servo to move to should you lose signal.
I wanted all channels (except throttle) to hold and since hold is the default, you get this automatically. The only channel I had to set up separately was to failsafe the throttle to shut down the turbine.
When you choose "Failsafe", a dialogue box pops up where you punch in the preset position you want. This is done by putting in the signal pulse width corresponding to the desired position. That sounds a lot more complicated than it really is because the dialogue box also shows you the pulse width corresponding to the current position of the stick/slider/switch for the channel. In my case, I was setting the throttle channel so I moved the stick to idle and put the trim fully down which gave a pulse width of 1.00 ms. By pressing the increment/decrement buttons, I adjusted the preset value to 1.00 ms. It really is a lot simpler than it sounds.
Jim
11-02-2013, 12:34 AM
#39
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I don't see this risk as a RX hardware failure, rather a loss of the RF link to that receiver (caused by in band interference or blocking/poor antenna orientation or whatever).
I have never had any radio failure (apart from one Hitec servo) ever, but I have lost many planes to RF link loss, even on Futaba FAAST.
I agree that combiner box is a single point failure, but if its reliability is much much better than the RF link reliability to one receiver is, then it is a net positive in my opinion.
I have never had any radio failure (apart from one Hitec servo) ever, but I have lost many planes to RF link loss, even on Futaba FAAST.
I agree that combiner box is a single point failure, but if its reliability is much much better than the RF link reliability to one receiver is, then it is a net positive in my opinion.
John
11-02-2013, 02:56 AM
#40
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I have set up a Powerbox Royal RRS with two R14 receivers which gives me enough redundancy too feel comfortable with a large jet. Nevertheless, anything can fail, anytime - it's just about minimizing the risk. I also feel that quality products add to this equation.
Chris
Chris
11-02-2013, 07:35 AM
#41
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I did some experimenting with the fail safe system and I must say that it is pretty cool.
I'm used to the JR/Spektrum system where you set up the failsafe when binding. With JR/Spektrum, once you set up the all the control throws, you put all the sticks/switches/sliders in the position you want them to go then rebind. Then you have to go into throttle travel and put it back to +/- 75% (for JetCat).
Jeti is completely different. Once you have the control throws set up, you go into a sub-menu to set up the failsafe condition. Each channel is set up individually where you select the failsafe condition as follows:
1) Default" which keeps this servo in its last position before the RF signal was lost
2) "Off" which shuts off the output to this servo
3) "Failsafe" which drives the servo to a preset position.
If you select failsafe, you have to tell the radio what preset position you want the servo to move to should you lose signal.
I wanted all channels (except throttle) to hold and since hold is the default, you get this automatically. The only channel I had to set up separately was to failsafe the throttle to shut down the turbine.
When you choose "Failsafe", a dialogue box pops up where you punch in the preset position you want. This is done by putting in the signal pulse width corresponding to the desired position. That sounds a lot more complicated than it really is because the dialogue box also shows you the pulse width corresponding to the current position of the stick/slider/switch for the channel. In my case, I was setting the throttle channel so I moved the stick to idle and put the trim fully down which gave a pulse width of 1.00 ms. By pressing the increment/decrement buttons, I adjusted the preset value to 1.00 ms. It really is a lot simpler than it sounds.
Jim
I'm used to the JR/Spektrum system where you set up the failsafe when binding. With JR/Spektrum, once you set up the all the control throws, you put all the sticks/switches/sliders in the position you want them to go then rebind. Then you have to go into throttle travel and put it back to +/- 75% (for JetCat).
Jeti is completely different. Once you have the control throws set up, you go into a sub-menu to set up the failsafe condition. Each channel is set up individually where you select the failsafe condition as follows:
1) Default" which keeps this servo in its last position before the RF signal was lost
2) "Off" which shuts off the output to this servo
3) "Failsafe" which drives the servo to a preset position.
If you select failsafe, you have to tell the radio what preset position you want the servo to move to should you lose signal.
I wanted all channels (except throttle) to hold and since hold is the default, you get this automatically. The only channel I had to set up separately was to failsafe the throttle to shut down the turbine.
When you choose "Failsafe", a dialogue box pops up where you punch in the preset position you want. This is done by putting in the signal pulse width corresponding to the desired position. That sounds a lot more complicated than it really is because the dialogue box also shows you the pulse width corresponding to the current position of the stick/slider/switch for the channel. In my case, I was setting the throttle channel so I moved the stick to idle and put the trim fully down which gave a pulse width of 1.00 ms. By pressing the increment/decrement buttons, I adjusted the preset value to 1.00 ms. It really is a lot simpler than it sounds.
Jim
Zb/Jeti USA
11-03-2013, 05:46 PM
#42
I just finished converting my BVM eBandit from DSMX system to Jeti Duplex DS16 FW 2.20 (I'm waiting for my DS-16 Carbon...) with R14 receiver.. I have setup the flight modes as well as crow (Butterfly) feature... I have the following issues and need help:
1. I'm using a basic (JR370A) gyro for the rudder... I notice a Gyro menu in "user" menu (not showing in "basic" menu) but when selected the screen for the Gyro menu is blank. May be its an upcoming feature and they have the menu item but no program behind it.. In the meanwhile how can I setup my gyro on the flight modes with different gain... I have no use for a bell curve gain and prefer to have no switches and just tied to flight modes..
2. I have setup delays for the flaps flaps through the servo setup menu and its perfect... In the Butterfly (crow setup) I have setup elevator adjustment for take-off mode and landing mode. I have setup ailerons to move up on landing mode and I'm trying to use the delay function for that mode (BTW I have setup specific mode) so the ailerons move up at the same speed and the flaps moving down (6.0s), BUT the delay function in the butterfly menu does NOT work and the ailerons jump up as the flaps are moving down...
Your inputs as appreciated
1. I'm using a basic (JR370A) gyro for the rudder... I notice a Gyro menu in "user" menu (not showing in "basic" menu) but when selected the screen for the Gyro menu is blank. May be its an upcoming feature and they have the menu item but no program behind it.. In the meanwhile how can I setup my gyro on the flight modes with different gain... I have no use for a bell curve gain and prefer to have no switches and just tied to flight modes..
2. I have setup delays for the flaps flaps through the servo setup menu and its perfect... In the Butterfly (crow setup) I have setup elevator adjustment for take-off mode and landing mode. I have setup ailerons to move up on landing mode and I'm trying to use the delay function for that mode (BTW I have setup specific mode) so the ailerons move up at the same speed and the flaps moving down (6.0s), BUT the delay function in the butterfly menu does NOT work and the ailerons jump up as the flaps are moving down...
Your inputs as appreciated
11-04-2013, 09:48 AM
#43
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1) That's for Helicopter set up only, you need to set any aux. channel for your gyro Gain. We started using the Captron Cortex stabilization unit. All 3-axis are just simple Plug & Play
http://www.espritmodel.com/captron-b...em-cortex.aspx
2) Go to Butterfly mode and change G-Global to S-Individual flying modes, also make sure you assigned Control Inputs correctly. This way you can set + Delay -, individually for all the flying modes.
Zb/Jeti USA
http://www.espritmodel.com/captron-b...em-cortex.aspx
2) Go to Butterfly mode and change G-Global to S-Individual flying modes, also make sure you assigned Control Inputs correctly. This way you can set + Delay -, individually for all the flying modes.
Zb/Jeti USA
11-04-2013, 10:33 AM
#44
1) That's for Helicopter set up only, you need to set any aux. channel for your gyro Gain. We started using the Captron Cortex stabilization unit. All 3-axis are just simple Plug & Play
http://www.espritmodel.com/captron-b...em-cortex.aspx
2) Go to Butterfly mode and change G-Global to S-Individual flying modes, also make sure you assigned Control Inputs correctly. This way you can set + Delay -, individually for all the flying modes.
Zb/Jeti USA
http://www.espritmodel.com/captron-b...em-cortex.aspx
2) Go to Butterfly mode and change G-Global to S-Individual flying modes, also make sure you assigned Control Inputs correctly. This way you can set + Delay -, individually for all the flying modes.
Zb/Jeti USA
Thanks Zb... After I posted my question I realized that I can assign the gyro gain channel to the flight mode switch (Sa) and adjust travel / gain per each mode... so that is Okay..
BUT for the delay in the butterfly mode I have done the exact as you have suggested and the + Delay - does not function... the elevator compensates as the flaps move down according to each flight mode, but when the flaps are moving to their final position the ailerons jump at normal speed. My expectation was that the delay in butterfly mode should slow down the elevator adjustment and the aileron adjustment to compensate for the slow moving flaps. can you verify with your transmitter on FW 2.20 to see if the delay in butterfly mode is functional as expected...
Thank you
11-04-2013, 03:41 PM
#45
Jeff Tolemeo and I attended the Monster Energy Jet Jam in Coachella this past weekend. I had just retrofitted the Jeti system into my Reaction XL (aka the Relaxtion) and was eager to try it out in a jet under event conditions. The plane was fitted with a EX R14 receiver, GPS and Vario sensors, and was also bound to a Jetibox Profli.
First of all, a big thank you to Clay Seddon, Dan Metz, and the Coachella Valley R/C Club for putting on a really great event. I was able to attend on Saturday only but had a fantastic time. The hospitality of the club was really outstanding!
Back to the radio....Jeti system performed perfectly during all five flights and it was great to have the voice telemetry feedback letting me know the antenna signal strength in real time. I had programmed a constant voice repeat of antenna strength, relative altitude, GPS ground speed while Jeff Tolemeo had the Profi in hand and monitered another half dozen parameters. I also really liked having the timer voice output on a 2-position spring switch so I could just flip the switch to hear the remaining time without having to ask someone to try to read the screen like I've had to do on previous radios I've used.
Jeff and I gave a little demo on the system afterwards and the demo attendees seemed pretty impressed with the capabilities of the system especially the telemetry voice outputs and the voice on events programming.
Also, congrats to Jeff who picked up an award for his Cougar. Cheyanne from Monster Energy Drinks presented the awards. Afterwards, a group of us went to a nearby casino to devestate the buffet of lobster, crab, shrimp, filet minion, prime rib, and deserts.
Regards,
Jim
First of all, a big thank you to Clay Seddon, Dan Metz, and the Coachella Valley R/C Club for putting on a really great event. I was able to attend on Saturday only but had a fantastic time. The hospitality of the club was really outstanding!
Back to the radio....Jeti system performed perfectly during all five flights and it was great to have the voice telemetry feedback letting me know the antenna signal strength in real time. I had programmed a constant voice repeat of antenna strength, relative altitude, GPS ground speed while Jeff Tolemeo had the Profi in hand and monitered another half dozen parameters. I also really liked having the timer voice output on a 2-position spring switch so I could just flip the switch to hear the remaining time without having to ask someone to try to read the screen like I've had to do on previous radios I've used.
Jeff and I gave a little demo on the system afterwards and the demo attendees seemed pretty impressed with the capabilities of the system especially the telemetry voice outputs and the voice on events programming.
Also, congrats to Jeff who picked up an award for his Cougar. Cheyanne from Monster Energy Drinks presented the awards. Afterwards, a group of us went to a nearby casino to devestate the buffet of lobster, crab, shrimp, filet minion, prime rib, and deserts.
Regards,
Jim
11-04-2013, 06:31 PM
#46
The point is that RX, Areial and spacial diversity can all be achieved without the addition of another item, i.e. the central box. Please do not confuse diversity which is about singal path assurance, with redundancy which is about overcomng failure risk. From the redundancy point of view the central box defeats the redundancy effort, whilst from the diversity point of view it is unnecessary.
John
John
In order to run 2 receivers, you have to either run a split system (each receiver running a different servo) or this mux box. Sorry if I got that wrong.
I have never been a fan of the "run one half elevator on one receiver, the other half on another" type deal, so I was speaking of a need to have the mux box, in order to have frequency diversity.
Last edited by mr_matt; 11-04-2013 at 06:34 PM. Reason: atrosious spelling
11-04-2013, 10:28 PM
#47
Thanks to Danny (at Esprit) I got my gyro working using the "Flight mode Trims". Also discovered how the +Delay- in the Butterfly mode works and got my ailerons and elevators move at the same speed as the flaps move down... What a smart transmitter... I'm liking it more and learn more every time I use it... I will have a whole bunch of JR and Spektrum DSMX receivers for sale.. Very soon......
11-05-2013, 07:33 AM
#48
Also, congrats to Jeff who picked up an award for his Cougar. Cheyanne from Monster Energy Drinks presented the awards. Afterwards, a group of us went to a nearby casino to devestate the buffet of lobster, crab, shrimp, filet minion, prime rib, and deserts.
Regards,
Jim
11-07-2013, 06:33 AM
#49
I'm using F4 to start and stop my timer... How can I attach a wav file to be triggered once the F4 starts the timer and another file when the F4 stops the timer.
I know a switch will do the job but I'm using F4 for the timer...
Thanks
David
I know a switch will do the job but I'm using F4 for the timer...
Thanks
David
11-07-2013, 07:49 AM
#50
David,
Normally this can be done using Voice On Events and a two position switch. When prompted, you just flip the switch to the timer on position (the radio sees that action and assigns the switch and position for timer on) and then you select the wav file to play when the switch is flipped. You then add another event for putting the switch in the off position and select another wav file.
Your selection of choosing the F4 pushbutton switch is an interesting twist. It's a momentary switch so there really is no on and off position. I'm at work now (I gotta earn the money to pay for these shiney toys) and don't have a radio in front of me. When I get home, I'll check it out to see if I can do this with the F4 switch.
Regards,
Jim
Normally this can be done using Voice On Events and a two position switch. When prompted, you just flip the switch to the timer on position (the radio sees that action and assigns the switch and position for timer on) and then you select the wav file to play when the switch is flipped. You then add another event for putting the switch in the off position and select another wav file.
Your selection of choosing the F4 pushbutton switch is an interesting twist. It's a momentary switch so there really is no on and off position. I'm at work now (I gotta earn the money to pay for these shiney toys) and don't have a radio in front of me. When I get home, I'll check it out to see if I can do this with the F4 switch.
Regards,
Jim
