Carf rebel pro
11-18-2022, 06:56 PM
#501
Member
I bought this from a friend of mine who also has a Rebel Pro. He had a complete layout laser cut plywood for everything, including battery trays and the strengthening section which is glued on below the top section where you are inquiring
about. If you would like, I can check him (Joe Allen) to see if he would do some more for anyone interested. If he wants to, I will give you the direct contact so you can talk with him.
Wayne
about. If you would like, I can check him (Joe Allen) to see if he would do some more for anyone interested. If he wants to, I will give you the direct contact so you can talk with him.
Wayne
11-18-2022, 07:19 PM
#502
I traced the upper outline and measured the reinforcement rib near the rear of the deck . Used 3/32 5ply wood and glue it to fibreglass for torsional support.
You don't require all that Lazer cutout wood, I haven't seen one with all the support wood in it.
The idea is to keep it as light as possible maybe some photos would be nice to see. Wayne!
You don't require all that Lazer cutout wood, I haven't seen one with all the support wood in it.
The idea is to keep it as light as possible maybe some photos would be nice to see. Wayne!
You don’t have to mount everything as is in the photo…but this gives an idea of what Joe did.
Wayne
11-19-2022, 08:04 AM
#504
11-19-2022, 08:07 AM
#505
11-19-2022, 08:08 AM
#506
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 15
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Cheers
11-19-2022, 10:33 AM
#507
Senior Member
Remember, mine is still on the boat…so these photos are Joe’s that he sent me on how he set up his Rebel Pro. The battery tray is removable and also the unit helps a little in strengthening the front section of the fuse.
You don’t have to mount everything as is in the photo…but this gives an idea of what Joe did.
Wayne
You don’t have to mount everything as is in the photo…but this gives an idea of what Joe did.
Wayne
My electron pack 2100 NiLipo is mounted beside the MAP tank on the fuse floor, I tried to keep all the busy equipment down and out of site.
11-19-2022, 10:53 AM
#508
Senior Member
So excuses the wire mess, my Map tank mount with a velcro beside the battery.
The second photo shows where I had to mount my batteries, i had to build a platform for the velcro to belly wrap the battery the right side i managed to get Velcro around the structure without cut and main supports.
It just a different way for mounting batteries, I believe I got this Idea from the Rebel Max posts as this type of mounting was done in other Rebels.
The second photo shows where I had to mount my batteries, i had to build a platform for the velcro to belly wrap the battery the right side i managed to get Velcro around the structure without cut and main supports.
It just a different way for mounting batteries, I believe I got this Idea from the Rebel Max posts as this type of mounting was done in other Rebels.
11-23-2022, 10:00 PM
#510
My Feedback: (11)
Got 2 flights in today with no luck. The first flight was just a basic flight, knife edge and rolls, landed no issues with no air in UAT. The landing was a bit off the runway again it really likes to yaw when I flair but that is the least of my issues.
2nd flight I put it through some paces, up and down lines. Once again right at 4 minutes flameout as I was getting ready for a gear pass, just level flight maybe 40% throttle. This time I was prepared and did a perfect landing gear up in the grass.
Only the smallest of bubbles in the UAT. I removed the filter. Here are pics of what I found. The air is coming in past the UAT. The black 6mm line coming from the tank line to the input of the pump, I removed it and checked it for leaks. Nothing, its solid. The safety wire job is also solid. You can clearly see the air coming out of the pump as there is a bubble that was forming on the output in the pics.
Question: The barb fittings on my UAT have orings. I tightened these barbs down to a stop, is that too tight? Maybe just slightly past hand tight is needed? There are only 3 causes I can think of:
Cavitation - I am using 8mm line from my vent line.
The pump itself is sucking air due to some defect
The UAT barb fittings are sucking or the UAT is really screwed up somehow.
Id like to think the issue is related to the up and down lines but it may just be a coincidence and I got lucky first flight, but I know the up and down lines I tend to use more throttle.
2nd flight I put it through some paces, up and down lines. Once again right at 4 minutes flameout as I was getting ready for a gear pass, just level flight maybe 40% throttle. This time I was prepared and did a perfect landing gear up in the grass.
Only the smallest of bubbles in the UAT. I removed the filter. Here are pics of what I found. The air is coming in past the UAT. The black 6mm line coming from the tank line to the input of the pump, I removed it and checked it for leaks. Nothing, its solid. The safety wire job is also solid. You can clearly see the air coming out of the pump as there is a bubble that was forming on the output in the pics.
Question: The barb fittings on my UAT have orings. I tightened these barbs down to a stop, is that too tight? Maybe just slightly past hand tight is needed? There are only 3 causes I can think of:
Cavitation - I am using 8mm line from my vent line.
The pump itself is sucking air due to some defect
The UAT barb fittings are sucking or the UAT is really screwed up somehow.
Id like to think the issue is related to the up and down lines but it may just be a coincidence and I got lucky first flight, but I know the up and down lines I tend to use more throttle.
11-24-2022, 04:57 AM
#511
My Feedback: (53)
Well not the UAT a little bit of air after an aggressive flight is normal, also not the fact you tighten the nipple down….I do that as well….
I see no filter, that’s not recommended but some do that…
That leave the pump as a culprit……you don’t happen to have access at an other pump…from a friend perhaps? Having said that, you would see fuel under as well…if it was drawing air…..
The other possibility is the (I think) Viton tubing from the UAT, I would definitely change that for some Festo tubing…
I see no filter, that’s not recommended but some do that…
That leave the pump as a culprit……you don’t happen to have access at an other pump…from a friend perhaps? Having said that, you would see fuel under as well…if it was drawing air…..
The other possibility is the (I think) Viton tubing from the UAT, I would definitely change that for some Festo tubing…
11-24-2022, 06:00 AM
#512
Just would like to add my 2 cents.
Being you are getting air bubbles in the fuel line; I personally would like to see you change to clear Festo fuel tubing from fuel tank to UAT and onto the fuel pump. As of now, you can't tell if there are any bubbles in the Viton tubing. You need to be able to monitor the full length of the fuel line system to accurately troubleshoot for the area causing the bubbles.
I once had a gas engine fuel system causing air bubbles in the fuel line and the engine to flame out. It turned out to be a bad fuel pickup in the fuel tank causing the bubbles. I would have never suspected that problem without changing to clear line to do the true troubleshooting needed. The pickup was the bubble causing culprit. Changed the pickup, problem solved.
I'm not saying the pickup is your problem, but you need to follow the total length of the fuel line.
I have been flying my Rebel Pro for years now with 6mm Festo line. 6mm Viton inside tank and 8mm overflow line and have never had any flameouts caused by bubbles.
Being you are getting air bubbles in the fuel line; I personally would like to see you change to clear Festo fuel tubing from fuel tank to UAT and onto the fuel pump. As of now, you can't tell if there are any bubbles in the Viton tubing. You need to be able to monitor the full length of the fuel line system to accurately troubleshoot for the area causing the bubbles.
I once had a gas engine fuel system causing air bubbles in the fuel line and the engine to flame out. It turned out to be a bad fuel pickup in the fuel tank causing the bubbles. I would have never suspected that problem without changing to clear line to do the true troubleshooting needed. The pickup was the bubble causing culprit. Changed the pickup, problem solved.
I'm not saying the pickup is your problem, but you need to follow the total length of the fuel line.
I have been flying my Rebel Pro for years now with 6mm Festo line. 6mm Viton inside tank and 8mm overflow line and have never had any flameouts caused by bubbles.
Last edited by rc4flying; 11-25-2022 at 05:40 AM.
11-24-2022, 06:34 AM
#513
Just would like to add my 2 cents.
Being you are getting air bubbles in the fuel line; I personally would like to see you change to clear Festo fuel tubing from fuel tank to UAT and onto the fuel pump. As of now, you can't tell if there are any bubbles in the Viton tubing. You need to be able to monitor the full length of the fuel line system to accurately troubleshoot for the area causing the bubbles.
I once had a gas engine fuel system causing air bubbles in the fuel line and the engine to flame out. It turned out to be a bad fuel pickup in the fuel tank causing the bubbles. I would have never suspected that problem without changing to clear line to do the true troubleshooting needed. The pickup was the bubble causing culprit. Changed the pickup, problem solved.
I'm not saying the pickup is your problem, but you need to follow the total length of the fuel line.
I have been flying my Rebel Pro for years now with 6mm Festo line. 6mm Viton inside tank and 8mm overflow line and have never had any flameouts caused by bubbles.
Being you are getting air bubbles in the fuel line; I personally would like to see you change to clear Festo fuel tubing from fuel tank to UAT and onto the fuel pump. As of now, you can't tell if there are any bubbles in the Viton tubing. You need to be able to monitor the full length of the fuel line system to accurately troubleshoot for the area causing the bubbles.
I once had a gas engine fuel system causing air bubbles in the fuel line and the engine to flame out. It turned out to be a bad fuel pickup in the fuel tank causing the bubbles. I would have never suspected that problem without changing to clear line to do the true troubleshooting needed. The pickup was the bubble causing culprit. Changed the pickup, problem solved.
I'm not saying the pickup is your problem, but you need to follow the total length of the fuel line.
I have been flying my Rebel Pro for years now with 6mm Festo line. 6mm Viton inside tank and 8mm overflow line and have never had any flameouts caused by bubbles.
I spoke with Joey yesterday and also suggested changing the fuel line from the UAT to the pump to a clear polyurethane 6mm line. He actually has “anti-static” 6mm line and not viton as suggested by contributors. To me, if there was an issue in the pickup inside the tank, would there not be more air in the UAT? Just thinking out loud.
I’m in agreement with Dansy that the issue is between the outlet of the UAT, the inlet of the fuel pump, or the pump itself. Since the 4mm line to the turbine is on the pressure side, if there was a leak, it would spew fuel rather than suck air there. But there is a bubble showing there, so it has to be coming in from the suction side.
I do think, Joey is pretty near to solving the issue he’s experiencing.
Wayne
11-24-2022, 07:33 AM
#514
Hey there Joe…How’s things?
I spoke with Joey yesterday and also suggested changing the fuel line from the UAT to the pump to a clear polyurethane 6mm line. He actually has “anti-static” 6mm line and not viton as suggested by contributors. To me, if there was an issue in the pickup inside the tank, would there not be more air in the UAT? Just thinking out loud.
I’m in agreement with Dansy that the issue is between the outlet of the UAT, the inlet of the fuel pump, or the pump itself. Since the 4mm line to the turbine is on the pressure side, if there was a leak, it would spew fuel rather than suck air there. But there is a bubble showing there, so it has to be coming in from the suction side.
I do think, Joey is pretty near to solving the issue he’s experiencing.
Wayne
I spoke with Joey yesterday and also suggested changing the fuel line from the UAT to the pump to a clear polyurethane 6mm line. He actually has “anti-static” 6mm line and not viton as suggested by contributors. To me, if there was an issue in the pickup inside the tank, would there not be more air in the UAT? Just thinking out loud.
I’m in agreement with Dansy that the issue is between the outlet of the UAT, the inlet of the fuel pump, or the pump itself. Since the 4mm line to the turbine is on the pressure side, if there was a leak, it would spew fuel rather than suck air there. But there is a bubble showing there, so it has to be coming in from the suction side.
I do think, Joey is pretty near to solving the issue he’s experiencing.
Wayne
I am doing well and hope you are also.
I may not have come across clearly, but what I was trying to say is to never assume anything when troubleshooting. And with his black fuel tubing, the problem can still be before the pump.
I agree that there should and would be more air in UAT if air was being introduced into the system before the UAT. Also, I can't tell what size wire he is using for securing the fuel lines but to be careful that the wire is not pinching the line on the intake nipple. Just a thought. But going to clear line is a must.
I hope he can solve his issues soon so as to begin to enjoy the Rebel Pro. I totally love the way my Pro flies.
11-24-2022, 08:30 AM
#515
My Feedback: (1)
Got 2 flights in today with no luck. The first flight was just a basic flight, knife edge and rolls, landed no issues with no air in UAT. The landing was a bit off the runway again it really likes to yaw when I flair but that is the least of my issues.
2nd flight I put it through some paces, up and down lines. Once again right at 4 minutes flameout as I was getting ready for a gear pass, just level flight maybe 40% throttle. This time I was prepared and did a perfect landing gear up in the grass.
Only the smallest of bubbles in the UAT. I removed the filter. Here are pics of what I found. The air is coming in past the UAT. The black 6mm line coming from the tank line to the input of the pump, I removed it and checked it for leaks. Nothing, its solid. The safety wire job is also solid. You can clearly see the air coming out of the pump as there is a bubble that was forming on the output in the pics.
Question: The barb fittings on my UAT have orings. I tightened these barbs down to a stop, is that too tight? Maybe just slightly past hand tight is needed? There are only 3 causes I can think of:
Cavitation - I am using 8mm line from my vent line.
The pump itself is sucking air due to some defect
The UAT barb fittings are sucking or the UAT is really screwed up somehow.
Id like to think the issue is related to the up and down lines but it may just be a coincidence and I got lucky first flight, but I know the up and down lines I tend to use more throttle.
2nd flight I put it through some paces, up and down lines. Once again right at 4 minutes flameout as I was getting ready for a gear pass, just level flight maybe 40% throttle. This time I was prepared and did a perfect landing gear up in the grass.
Only the smallest of bubbles in the UAT. I removed the filter. Here are pics of what I found. The air is coming in past the UAT. The black 6mm line coming from the tank line to the input of the pump, I removed it and checked it for leaks. Nothing, its solid. The safety wire job is also solid. You can clearly see the air coming out of the pump as there is a bubble that was forming on the output in the pics.
Question: The barb fittings on my UAT have orings. I tightened these barbs down to a stop, is that too tight? Maybe just slightly past hand tight is needed? There are only 3 causes I can think of:
Cavitation - I am using 8mm line from my vent line.
The pump itself is sucking air due to some defect
The UAT barb fittings are sucking or the UAT is really screwed up somehow.
Id like to think the issue is related to the up and down lines but it may just be a coincidence and I got lucky first flight, but I know the up and down lines I tend to use more throttle.
1. Have a helper to hold the aircraft for you on the ground.
2. with a full tank start the aircraft. Once started, have the throttle set to maybe 1/2 throttle.
3. Start from the UAT to PUMP line moving and wiggling the fuel lines and do this all the way to the turbine. you have demonstrated that it's not from the UAT Back.
4. I would start off just moving the lines in all orientations/directions.
5. if that doesn't do it get a bit more aggressive with the lines and fittings to see if you get air sucking in anywhere.
My thoughts behind this process. Maybe there is a small cut line or pin hole in the feed lines before the pump. They seal while sitting there and normal running but maybe in the right tubing movement or aircraft orientation it opens up and allows air to suck in. Same with the fittings on these lines.
IF this has been suggested already in the past few pages, I apologize, I did not read every last word, I just scanned through the pictures and read a bit about your flameout issues.
Again, if this was my aircraft this is what I would do.
Jonathan.
The following 2 users liked this post by Canadian Man:
chevronflyer (11-24-2022),
Skunkwrks (11-24-2022)
11-24-2022, 09:36 AM
#516
My Feedback: (11)
A couple of notes. I do use the festo PVC not viton, only viton in the tank. I am going to change the line from the pump output on the UAT (that goes to the pump input) with some red PVC line, it is mostly clear but Ill be able to see bubbles.
I am using 8mm clunk line for my vent line.
I have tested this jet for HOURS on the ground. Ill put the pump to darn near max (pump test in the ECU) and I cannot reproduce. However I didnt try moving things around, and that is mostly because everything is tied down. Before this flameout flight the engine idled for nearly 2-3 minutes on the ground before I took off. I had an issue getting the canopy on. So any air would have been sucked up, plus I go to WOT on the ground before taxi out.
The line I removed between the pump and the UAT I pressure testing it, no leaks. Granted it was pressure not vacuum.
While I am troubleshooting this issue, getting a flameout in the air is not a good thing. What if I got one of these intairco filters, arent these kinda like mini UATs?
https://globaljet.club/products/copy...l-tygon-tube-1
I wonder if it would catch enough air for me to get a short flight in with arobatics, then land and I can see everything with less risk?
Re: Filter or no filter. This is a hot topic, Im only removed it so I can ensure that was not the culprit. Once I get this figured it can go back in.
I am using 8mm clunk line for my vent line.
I have tested this jet for HOURS on the ground. Ill put the pump to darn near max (pump test in the ECU) and I cannot reproduce. However I didnt try moving things around, and that is mostly because everything is tied down. Before this flameout flight the engine idled for nearly 2-3 minutes on the ground before I took off. I had an issue getting the canopy on. So any air would have been sucked up, plus I go to WOT on the ground before taxi out.
The line I removed between the pump and the UAT I pressure testing it, no leaks. Granted it was pressure not vacuum.
While I am troubleshooting this issue, getting a flameout in the air is not a good thing. What if I got one of these intairco filters, arent these kinda like mini UATs?
https://globaljet.club/products/copy...l-tygon-tube-1
I wonder if it would catch enough air for me to get a short flight in with arobatics, then land and I can see everything with less risk?
Re: Filter or no filter. This is a hot topic, Im only removed it so I can ensure that was not the culprit. Once I get this figured it can go back in.
11-24-2022, 11:11 AM
#517
My Feedback: (53)
I used the Intairco iFilter, the super large are in fact mini UAT but come with one plug for the fill line….I have used those with success on 210+ motor, and the normal one in all the rest, I have either in all my jets.
Since there’s air right after the pump, and the line was pressurized OK I would assume it’s the pump then, only way to know is to try another one….
Since there’s air right after the pump, and the line was pressurized OK I would assume it’s the pump then, only way to know is to try another one….
11-24-2022, 05:10 PM
#518
My Feedback: (11)
Ok I replaced the fest PVC anti static line with some clear 6mm tubing that came with my carf flash. From the UAT to the pump inlet its about 1.5 feet or a little more worth of line, is this too much?
Desperate to fix this, I also added a small amount of RTV sealant to the threads of the tank output on the UAT in case it is sucking there.
Doubled up safety wire on the pump input and added some to the output just in case.
The tubing in the pic is just there temporarily so I can see any bubbles easily.
Concerns? Thoughts? Im at a loss this is the simplest fuel system ever and its kicking my ass.
Desperate to fix this, I also added a small amount of RTV sealant to the threads of the tank output on the UAT in case it is sucking there.
Doubled up safety wire on the pump input and added some to the output just in case.
The tubing in the pic is just there temporarily so I can see any bubbles easily.
Concerns? Thoughts? Im at a loss this is the simplest fuel system ever and its kicking my ass.
11-24-2022, 05:15 PM
#519
My Feedback: (53)
I didn’t realize the pump was this far away from the UAT, normally I try to minimize that by placing the pump/uat as close together as possible and with as little as possible difference in height….
But before someone says he has done that…..I have as well when I had no choice….just not the best practice…the pro I build they where on top together…..
But before someone says he has done that…..I have as well when I had no choice….just not the best practice…the pro I build they where on top together…..
11-24-2022, 06:05 PM
#520
Senior Member
mine is on the belly and two feet away from the pump located on the spar tube. Works
11-24-2022, 07:42 PM
#522
My Feedback: (11)
So what do you make of this video. Note: This is the 4th test where I can replicate this. Im not sure if this test is a good one as maybe the fuel is flowing faster but I can say that after 1 minute of this the fuel in the catching container is not as much as would be used by the jet in flight.
As you can see, air bubbles come out of the UAT. After the 3rd test I would think the air would be gone, what is going on?
There is an air bubble at 25 seconds, its fast and another a second or 2 later. My other tests had more than 1 bubble. Thoughts? Like I said on the tank output to the pump, it has RTV sealant. I can do this all day and get a better video with more random bubbles.
A screenshot.
As you can see, air bubbles come out of the UAT. After the 3rd test I would think the air would be gone, what is going on?
There is an air bubble at 25 seconds, its fast and another a second or 2 later. My other tests had more than 1 bubble. Thoughts? Like I said on the tank output to the pump, it has RTV sealant. I can do this all day and get a better video with more random bubbles.
A screenshot.
11-24-2022, 07:47 PM
#523
My Feedback: (11)
I also wanted to add to simulate back pressure, I partially close the fuel shut off valve on a previous test, it just takes more pump PW but it starts doing it. I know these uat are made in germany now, I wonder if they suck now. Which really stinks I have bought 3 I planned to use in other jets. Dangit.
Last edited by essyou35; 11-24-2022 at 07:56 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Skunkwrks (11-25-2022)
11-24-2022, 10:04 PM
#525
My Feedback: (11)
More testing and here is what I noticed. When the UAT is drained, there is air that gets trapped inside that silver filter area. At low pump PW, its not enough to suck it out, but at high PW it is. However, once I do a vertical line, it will start sucking out the trapped air at 100 pw, and near 300 PW there is a lot of air. Rocking the UAT back and forth simulating up and down lines, everytime air goes into the line.
I think once it is completely purged it wouldnt be an issue but should I put up with this from a UAT? I have a recent BVM UAT sock type, I think Ill just use that.
I think once it is completely purged it wouldnt be an issue but should I put up with this from a UAT? I have a recent BVM UAT sock type, I think Ill just use that.