sewbusy

I understand why you feel the way you do….however, my issue was not with bubbles in my system or engine shut downs. The wiring used throughout the Pro is the Maxi PowerBox wires for the long runs and I made all of them, myself…so I feel very sure of what I have inside the Pro.

There is no “curse” on any jet and I’m not afraid of flying it. If there is an issue with any aircraft, it should not be flown until the issue is rectified, checked and double checked. Of course, anything can happen….even with brand new equipment, and it is our responsibility, as pilots, to try and negate such items as much as we can. Then the rest falls on us when we are in the air.

All I know is that I can already see a difference flying the Pro in one flight. And I certainly do feel that it will take me further in competition. It’s alive BTW and sitting in my garage!
Wayne​​​​​​​

essyou35

My Feedback: (11)

I said that because this jet has some sort of "elitist status" but they crash like any jet for all kinds of reasons and there is nothing that can be done at time. I do agree if there is an issue it should be fixed, but all we can do is fix it and then find out later it wasnt fixed in some cases.
You got lucky though so you have confidence. I wasnt so lucky but Ive never been.

I still think mine went in due to radio interference. I have not flown a turbine since then but I just got my new f86 and Im working on getting my new flash in the air. I have a test jet that is foam Im going to test my RXs with before I install them. Time to get back on the horse.
Let us know what you think of the jet after you put it through the paces.

essyou35

My Feedback: (11)

BTW, it think its great you have people int he club to help you. People in my club just want to see me crash so they can feel good, I get 0 help. They are still talking politics about my crash and they hardly fly lol.

smcharg

My Feedback: (1)

Bro, maybe you need to find a new club??? Sounds like they've turned you to the negative side and that isn't any way to live your one life and enjoy the hobby you have. I hate to see you have all these negative thoughts. Come on down to Texas, and get lifted up again where you belong.

BTW, I know those types of clubs. They aren't worth it. I feel for ya.

Scott

Agrav8ed

Making some progress. Still need to finish up the wings, gear and install the smoke but she is getting there.
Tone

sewbusy

Whatever you do…DON’T over tighten the grab screw on the top of the UAT. It will splinter the acrylic glass looking sleeve and leak fuel (please don’t ask me how I know.) Your baby is coming along.
Wayne

MarceloSabat

Hello everyone.. can anybody help me with this question? How many shipping boxes there are for the Rebel Pro, and approximate weight and size of them?
thanks! 😃

sewbusy

Hi Marcelo... There were two boxes(1) 58"x28"x22" (#2) 84"x20"X21" These are in inches. I don't know the weight...but they were pretty light, as I was able to maneuver them myself. I would guess about 45-50 lbs total weight. Bulky, but light.
Wayne

MarceloSabat

Hi Wayne, thank you so much!

Agrav8ed

I know that the Rebel Pro and the Max use the same gear. I just finished my build but the main gear seems really stiff. Has anyone found that the gear is a bit stiff for the Pro?
Thanks,
Tone

sewbusy

Tone... I wouldn't fret too much.... Many, many Rebel Pro's have been flying with these L/Gears from Electron. What I found on mine, was that I had to go in slightly on the adjustment screw to align the angle to fit the pre-cut slot that CARF did, so in effect, the springs were slightly pre-loaded and had a slight angle on them, instead of being straight up.
I did like that & the Pro taxied perfectly. I would let that slide and get her ready for flight.
Wayne

Agrav8ed

So I finished my pro. It is a bit heavier than I would have hoped at around 39 pounds but considering that it has smoke, a Swiwin 220, unilights, and three 5000mah batteries, I do not think it is too bad. I had initially written stating that I thought I was having a hard time getting the front plastic nuts onto the wing bolts due to my gorilla size hands. However, I purchased the Seccraft aluminum wing bolts and the problem persisted. Come to find out, the aluminum bolts mounted in the front of the wings were actually a bit larger than 6mm. Neither the plastic or the after-market nuts would thread on very far. The plastic ones could be forced, but were so tight it was difficult to get them back off once the wings were mounted. They fit on the rear wing bolts with no issue. I ended up getting a metric tap and die and used the 6mm die to resize the wing bolts and now it is perfect. The bolts go on easily both the plastic version and the aluminum Secraft ones. Just a heads-up for anyone else who may be having this issue.
Thanks,
Tone

sewbusy

My input, may not be what other pilots want out of this thread. However, now that it (thread) has matured with so much input from builders/assemblers, I am wondering if it should now move to the next step of aircraft set-ups and what actually works, as compared to factory settings. And also how pilots actually trim out their Rebel Pro to fly in various ways, whether it's for regular fly-ins, light aerobatics or competition.
Wayne

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Funny you mention that, I'm about to set one up tomorrow for a guy. Lucky we had the file from his radio so other than some personalizing it should be pretty close to ready to go.

smcharg

My Feedback: (1)

For those that are using PowerBox iGyro and the Competition SR2 or similar, here's a small tip if you haven't really worked with the system before. I'm not sure why it took me some time to wrap my head around this but maybe my experience will help somebody else.

I come from the land of pattern. Using a gyro is a big no-no (we won't go down the road of how ridiculous it is not to use one as the gyro does not fly the plane for you) so this is really my first time truly using a gyro except the cheap ones we put in the foam EDF jets. I've installed it in my Rebel and did this before the first flight. Committed to making the jet fly as good as I could without the gyro, I had it turned off for the first 10 flights. Now, it's time to tune it. Having read....and then re-read....and then read again the instructions, I thought I got it. Rate A, which is active with positive PWM values, is stabilized and Rate B, which is active with negative PWM values, is what PB calls Attitude (read "a type of Heading Hold but not exactly"). Ailerons are active with Attitude Assist by default in Rate B.

So, my thinking was that Rate A is Stabilized and B is Attitude Assist. I was going to save my realization to the end but I'm going to go ahead and clear that up right away. In actuality Rate A and Rate B are EXACTLY the same thing just activated by +/- PWM values (aka gain control). You can activate Attitude Assist on either A or B or both or not at all. Just remember that, by default, Attitude Assist for Ailerons is ON, on Rate B so make sure to turn it off if you don't want it on. The other part is this:

I fly Futaba. Except for my first radio back in 1989, I've always flown Futaba and have never lost an airplane due to the radio. While I've been a sponsored pilot for them for 11 years now, I wish they would consider doing amazing things like PowerBox Core or the Jeti Duplex systems. While I do have the 32MZ, it is lacking some of the functionality that makes the two aforementioned systems very attractive. The MAIN thing about Futaba is that their PWM values are opposite of every other manufacturer and my point for bringing this up. Since Rate A is positive PWM and Rate B is negative PWM, the previous fact did not dawn on me until the gyro did not act at all as I expected. While I did set up everything properly, I did forget that Futaba's PWM values are opposite so, while I thought I was working in Rate A and setting up stabilized, I was actually working with Rate B (which I had set up for Attitude Assist). Needless to say, I was convinced I hated gyros and I was definitely a better pilot without it.

There are two points to this. #1 - if you're using Futaba and iGyro (or any other gyro), remember that PWM values are opposite of pretty much everyone else. #2 - for the PowerBox iGyro and Competition SR2, Rate A and Rate B are simply two different choices. One does not have to be Stabilized and one Attitude, they are simply two choices (aka settings) that you have the ability to use in any mode you see fit.

Again, this may be a "no-duh" moment for most of you but for those that are new to this world, maybe this post will save you a bit of time and frustration. My Rebel was already on rails but now I'm able to lock it in that much better with this simple understanding. I strongly recommend taking your time to get the plane flying the best you can without the gyro and then slowly sneak up on the values you want in the gyro to give it that finished feel. We can discuss fine tuning if you want here but I wanted to just give this small tip and we can see where it goes. The Rebel doesn't need much help but the gyro truly finishes this plane and makes it one of the best platforms I've ever flown in 33 years and trust me when I say, I've flown just about everything there is.

Also, special thanks to Arch Stafford and Jonathan Vogt for the discussions and confirmations.

Skunkwrks

I Had the same issue with my big meat hooks getting to the front threads, near impossible for me took me a half hour the first time on one nut to get the nut thread properly. My friend who has built a lot of jets, agreed that Carf could have moved the location an inch back to allow easier orientation of the nut on the threads. I also snapped the front thread off one of mine, so like you had to use the secraft stud and retap the aluminum block Carf used to machine the threads from , I used Hysol to glue the stud into the wing .
I'm surprised at the low quality of the Alumuin block and thread Carf used in the wings. This the main issue, like you i have with my Pro besides that it flys very well.

Skunkwrks

Scott, I totally agree with your assessment of trimming out the plane first and working out the wrinkles first, then applying the gyro.
I have more gyro input landing flaps and alot less for just flying, its a three step approch that Jonathan showed me and would very well with the Pro.
The landing is the main area were a gyro really helps the pilot out.
Thanks for your insight and Wayne in getting this machine trimmed out .

Russell

Rtflyer7

Hello everyone, I've been into model aviation since I was a kid. I'm 31 now and have some disposable income lol. I would describe myself as a good pilot. I've flown everything to small foamies, EDF jets, and large scale 3D. However, I'm looking into getting into jets, and I'm interested in the Carf Rebel Pro. I have very little knowledge on turbine powered jets and need some advice lol. I have a Spektrum IX14. What would you all recommend I would need to complete the build? I know the landing gear, lights, and thrust tube are available with Carf, and I have an idea of what servos to use. A kingtech 210 seems to be a popular choice for the turbine. What radio systems, fuel tank, and other items would you recommend?
Also, I've seen that there arent detailed instructions for the build. Will that be an issue for me? Thanks!

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

The radio is fine with a PowerSafe receiver. 12 channels is about minimum, 13 if you want lights. CARF has the fuel tank, thrust pipe and gear. I'd recommend Electron gear over JP but you pay for it. That turbine is fine. You'll need a UAT probably 200ml. Most people want a gyro, iGryo or Cortex Pro are popular choices.

Hopefully you have someone local into jets that can help you out. If you're in the US and flying at a club you'll need someone to get your waiver so that person or persons can help you with the setup and build.

smcharg

My Feedback: (1)

If you're a fan of YouTube, I'd suggest looking up "The Lighter Side of RC" and start watching some of Jonathan's series on assembling jets as well. There are a few nuances i.e. setting up flap servos to reduce the load on the servo at full deflection, thrust tube to turbine alignment, retract setup, etc. There are many other good tips. This thread and the Rebel Max thread will help you build your jet if you choose this model.

The amazing thing about this jet is it'll land at a crawl and still haul the mail at a good wide envelope as well. I don't think there's a better jet out there to take you from your first jet through a very smooth, aerobatic jet than any of the Rebel series.

sewbusy

Time for an update: I now have 12 flights on the Rebel Pro. On my first few flights, I realized that I had to change my landing technique as compared to how I landed the Leonardo. The Rebel lands a lot slower and needs to be slow on the flare, or she becomes a “Hopalong a bit” if one is not careful.
We all have heard that the Rebel Pro does not need any knife edge mixing….I shrugged my head and secretly thought “Yeah, right!” Well….the reality hit me…… It doesn’t, and I was more than surprised. So, with that behind me, I proceeded to fine tune the throws that I needed for competition.

I found that for axial rolls (and point rolls, especially on vertical lines) that I needed opposite aileron differential (meaning slightly more down throw than up) and I ended with 15degrees up on the right aileron and 16 degrees down on the left aileron and a similar difference on the other sides but slightly less throws to have both right and left roll rates the same.

My balance point at this time is exactly in the center of the wing tube. For me, this works much better (for competition set up) than at the recommended back of the wing tube. This is just a preference in how I fly and I modified the down throw and also the expo so that it doesn’t feel like I’m pushing too much down when I’m inverted. We must remember, that the wings on the Rebels are not symmetrical (they are semi-symmetrical) and when inverted, the natural tendency is for the nose to go down. We can try to move the balance rearward to help compensate for the “push” feel, but for competition, it can then make the tracking different.

I moved on to the gyro, as the jet was really feeling solid and boosting my confidence. In the Leonardo, the PowerBox Mercury had an integrated gyro and I had set one of the parameters to HARD which was recommended. With the Competition SR2 in the Rebel (with the gyro separate) I had also set the parameter to HARD….and eventually found out that I needed to put it back to NORMAL (which was the default) as the algorithms for the new gyro was different, making the gyro sensitive.I now have the gyro set a 30% and will begin to individually tailor the surfaces as needed.

I have also started to practice the F3S “P” sequence and have now done 3 out of the 12 flights on the Rebel. I’m amazed at how much vertical I have with the KT235 and am lacking nothing at all. I’m also landing with approximately 1/3 tank left after a full 8 minutes of aerobatics even though I do not fill up the 6L tank to the top. I have approximately 5.5L on board on takeoff, so my fuel consumption is less with the lighter Rebel as less throttle is needed, but the “oomph” is still there, latently waiting for any vertical that needs conquering! My UAT has a very small bubble after a full aerobatic flight, so I’m extremely happy with the round tank, the Digitech clunk and the Digitech UAT.

I will continue with any info that I gather as I go along.
Wayne

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

If you don't have a GPS I'd set the initial gain to 20 with 25 with full flaps. 30 might (will probably) get you shimmy at full speed, you can sneak up higher as you test but personally I'd test there to start.

sewbusy

Hey Andy….Look closely on the second photo…..snuggled beside the UAT is the GPSIII. I didn’t feel a difference between 25 & 30%, so that’s why I left it at 30.

Full speed with the 235 is a SCARY thought!! My Dna rejects!
W

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

LMAO ya true that thing would be honkin.

Skunkwrks

Yes I totally agree at full throttle this Pro becomes a rocket and even a form pylon racer like me gets a little scared at the speed.

Good to hear your fine-tuning is going smoothly and your happy with the new machine . He should really enjoy those Jets maneuvers even more.
It really holds a knife edge with little to no rudder, i do have a small issue with the roll rate, to the right is quickier than to the left guess i need to increase the left throws by 1-2mm and see how if i get even rolls.
Like your ditech pickup in the tank, I switched to a large felt pick in the 6L CMjet tank and have notice hardly any air bubbles in my Map tank while flying some aerobatics maneuvers a great improvement from just the brass pickup. So after 9:30min flying I have 1.5 liters still in the tank and flying at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle my 240 isn't working hard but really goes when I call for the power just like yours Wayne.
I just placed an order with Raymond for the smaller 2m classic that should be here in 3 months. I'm gald to hear you really are enjoying the Pro and weclome to the Club.